Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 7
  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

God specific lists and Fearless
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
It's a hard thing to avoid. The Thousand Sons really ought to be all Fearless. The mark of Slaanesh always has been characterised by Fearlessness (although that's changing in the new codex :( ). That leaves the Death Guard and the World Eaters. I'm willing to consider that these two armies shouldn't be Fearless, but then which units should be and which units shouldn't? Do we make Bezerkers and Plague Marines Fearless like in 40K? Do we make all other troops not Fearless, again like 40K? I have issue with the idea that, say, Nurgle Chosen are less Fearless than the normal Plague Marines - what's going on with that? Then again, that's how it is now in 40K.

Others have pointed out that the high cost and relative low formation sizes may mean that without TSKNF or Fearless they're going to be vulnerable. I'm not too sure this is an issue in DG or WE armies, which can both have pretty large formations.

I think Fearless is pretty unavoidable in the Thousand Sons, and I think it really should be a feature of the Emperor's Children. I'm happy to entertain the idea of taking Fearless away from the DG and WEs if anyone can come up with a cunning way of doing it.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
The Cult Marines are Fearless. All DeathGuard are PlagueMarines and all ThousandSons are RubricMarines or Sorcerers.
This leaves EmperorsChildren and WorldEaters. Are all of these CultMarines?
I guess yes, but this shouldn't stop someone to include god specific ChaosSpaceMarines into the list too.
But theni guess this will dilute the focus of the god specific armies :(

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:40 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Hmm sounds good.
Retinues would then be mixes of Legionaires and Traitor Marines.

eg DeathGuard would be 7 DeathGuard Plaguemarines and could be upgraded with 4 ChaosSpaceMarines from the Cleaved Chapter




_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Steve54
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:36 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4311
After reading the new codex-

Emperors Children - I would keep them Fearless but perhaps limit that to Noise Marines, Havocs, Possessed and Chosen (rename as Terminators). It is also specifically stated that not all EC are noise marines so perhaps change the basic retinue to BL style Legionnaires with the option to upgrade to possessed or Noise Marines.

World Eaters - would follow the same pattern as EC

Death Guard - All Death Guard are Plague marines - perhaps limit fearlessness again. Maybe add the option of units of aspiring Plague Marines - Nurgle worshipping CSM from other chapters on the route to becoming fully fledged Plague Marines.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
minitj
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:34 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:11 pm
Posts: 215
Location: UK
fluff wise - all WEs are beserkers, and those that havejoined the legion since the heresy are also beserkers - so i doubt theres any way around it?

_________________
Need a painted army? [url=http://www.iwantapaintedarmy.co.uk]www.iwantapaintedarmcy.co.uk[/url]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:51 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
fluff wise - all WEs are beserkers

I don't think that's true any more... though I havn't read the new codex yet.

I think there's supposed to be some sane ones in the World Eaters too now, or semi-sane anyway. :D

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
I don't think so. All WorldEaters are Berzerkers, but not all Khorne worshipping CMS are Berzerkers.

So should the God specific lists consisting only of the 4 famous Legions and Kultmarines, or should they be a mix of Kultmarines and this specific god worshipping CSMs?
I would say the latter.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Irondeath
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:36 pm
Posts: 653

(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 04 2007,10:51)
QUOTE
fluff wise - all WEs are beserkers

I don't think that's true any more... though I havn't read the new codex yet.

I think there's supposed to be some sane ones in the World Eaters too now, or semi-sane anyway. :D

I sure wish there were some saner elements in the World Eaters.

What little fluff there was in Slaves to Darkness had them as hard-core killers, using all available means to spread death among their foes, with only the most deranged elements joining the Company of the Chosen assault squads and becoming the frothing berserkers 2nd Edition made them.


Guess I?m badly old school...

_________________
Visit www.epic-battles.de the ultimate german epic site&forum!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:12 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
All WorldEaters are Berzerkers, but not all Khorne worshipping CMS are Berzerkers.


Are you certain about that?

As I said I havn't read the codex yet, but I had the impression the fluff had been reverted to the older image that Irondeath cites.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Unless the codex changed it, BL is right.  World Eaters are all berzerkers.

Possibly, you might work up some sort of reasonable justification for some of the Emperor's Children and World Eaters not to be Fearless.  You'd have to start with some premise along the lines that they aren't all mindless slaves to experience or berzerkers, respectively.  The thing is, though, as the most die-hard adherents to their deities' world views, they should be the best possible mortal embodiment of the deities' traits.  Having some of them not follow the principals is going to be a bit of an uphill struggle.

Non-cult CSMs of similar loyalty could still be sane enough to function as normal CSMs.  I suppose you could have a "cult" list that was actually a core of the cult legion marines, with followers that were not as far gone.  There is also the idea that even though the attrition rate among the legions may be low, they would have to indoctrinate new members eventually as they're not immortal and would have battlefield losses.  The "normal" troops could be novitiates or new initiates to the cult legions.

I could most easily see some of the Death Guard being non-Fearless, as well as going with a "Cult + Follower" concept.

I don't see a way to get around TSons being Fearless.  The Rubric troops are automatons.  From a practical standpoing I tried several versions with the non-Rubric units like Sorcerers being non-Fearless and they just became hackdown fodder.

I don't even think the "Cult + Follower" idea works very well for them.  Unlike the cult marines in the other legions, who may be exceptionally long-lived or have time-warp experiences in the EoT, the Rubric TSons are essentially immortal.  Even if the original suits of armor were destroyed I could see them being recreated from mere fragments so that anything short of total disintegration means they can come back.  The TSons would only need to recruit replacements for the still-mortal sorcerers.  I picture most of the later additions to the Tzeentch cult being psykers seeking greater power and glory.  At that point, they join a cabal of other sorcerers or find/rebuild some Rubric marines to command, or both.

The only mortal and non-sorcerer followers I can picture for Tzeentch would be Possessed.  Even then, any non-sorcerer, non-rubric followers would be shortlived as they succumbed to rapid mutation.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Unless the codex changed it, BL is right.  World Eaters are all berzerkers.


As I mentioned, I think the new codex may have changed this so that fluffwise, not all World Eaters are berzerkers.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Charad
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:00 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Finland
New codex looks at chaos from different view. No much info about original legions. Only one pic of alpha legion in whole book. :(

For me, all world eaters are always berzerkers. :)

_________________
Rats Keep Running...

Dark Eldar Dracon
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
But not all Khorne Berzerkers are berzerking all the time. Some must drive the Rhinos, LandRaiders, etc ;)

And a Tzeentch army mustn't consist entirely of Rubric Marines and Sorcerers. There are Tzeentch devoted Traitor Marines out there.
The Scourged are one of those chapters fallen to Tzeentch.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 7
  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net