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Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:19 pm 
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(Irondeath @ Sep. 20 2007,12:00)
QUOTE
Just downloaded 1.5 and I?ve noticed some oddities with regards to the Eldar Shields of Vaul / Swords of Vaul.

Restricting them 0-1 in the Shields seems a bit ... arbitrary ... neither the discussions were leaning that way nor can I find any post by Sotec confirming this change.

Same with the replace 0-2 Falcons with FS for +25 each in the Swords.

I principally agree with a change being necessary, but I?d like to know the reasoning behind these.

That was based on some old polls I did and some inside information about what Sotec was intending. However since then Sotec has changed things around, and more debate has happened, see my comments further up in this thread.  In short it needs changing again.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:29 pm 
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(Markconz @ Sep. 20 2007,04:19)
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Also currently I'm looking at just 12 core armies for this revision, not stuff like Dark Eldar or Necrons which have had comparatively less playtesting, and for which no figure range exists or has ever existed. Mosc is covering those in a supplement, though I don't know what deadline he has on when that is coming out.

I concur. DE and Necrons don't need to be part of the update.  The Raiders supplement will be enough.

And I've been holding off on answering this question but I do not believe the October deadline will be hit for Epic: Raiders.  There are a number of good reasons for it, but the most reasonable deadline at this point will be November-December.

I'll post more information on the Raiders thread.

Sem, I didn't think of that aspect of the rules.  Good call and I agree.  I'm not convinced the holofield or farsight needs to be in there either, but I would be open to it if it were.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:35 pm 
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Markconz, with no offense meant to anyone who playtests the Tyranids, plays the Tyranids, paints the Tyranids, hugs their Tyranids at night like a teddy bear...

Are they ready to be part of the core rules?  If playtesting is a main factor, I would say there hasn't been nearly enough.  The Tyranids have had their specialized rules changed which completely alters the list.  The unit stats seem to be in a constant state of flux.  It is effectively a different list than it was 3 months ago. six months ago, etc.

We're not talking small tweaks.  We're talking big sweeping changes based on the special rule changes alone.  I could arguably see the Tau going through on this iteration but not the bugs.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Well to restate what I said in e-mails, I could say 'things are not perfectly ready so nothing is happening after 3 years', but IMO that's really not good enough, and is missing the big picture. That's would just be ERC all over again. 3 years, 3.5 , 4? How long?  We have already mucked the epic community at large around for far too long. With this sort of project you need to set a deadline and then release what you have come up with at that time.

Just like Swordwind I imagine Tau and Tyranids will have problems that will need to be addressed (maybe problems as substantial as the Eldar Swordwind release, but that would take some doing - not even the tyranids now is that broken IMO).  At least it will get more people using and testing those lists like the Swordwind release did, which will help develop and improve those lists in the long run.

(Edit - one further point regarding Nids is that most unit stats have actually been pretty stable for some time now, as have most of the special rules. The no BM/Instinctive rule change is the big recent upheaval).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:15 pm 
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I expect Tyranids to have one or two more BIG updates, and then things will settle for a long while.

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Irondeath
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:12 pm 
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(Markconz @ Sep. 20 2007,14:19)
QUOTE

(Irondeath @ Sep. 20 2007,12:00)
QUOTE
*snip*

That was based on some old polls I did and some inside information about what Sotec was intending. However since then Sotec has changed things around, and more debate has happened, see my comments further up in this thread. ?In short it needs changing again.

Thanks for the prompt reply and keep up the good work!

You are definitely getting a lot of issues resolved that have been static for too long and cleared up the tangle of FAQs and obscure forum discussions...

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:42 pm 
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Another fix:

P50, Autarch entry: in the WEAPONS column, the "OR" is not needed. Aurarchs have both weapons, only exarchs get one or the other.

Also, if there is room, include a note stating that the Exarch weapon is determined by the Aspect stand containing the exarch.

Also, Exarchs are inspiring, so add that to their entry on p 50, too.
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Gezeder
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:34 am 
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Hi,

Great Handbook!

I had a query on two things:

1. On page 45 stormboyz are listed as having a movement of 15cm. Should this be 30cm - like in the Epic5.pdf?

2. Would it be possible to fit on or near page 45, or 68 the rules for using Oddboyz?

"Notes: Ork Oddboyz can be one of two types: Big Meks or Slavers. Both are Characters. A Big Mek can be added to a gunwagon or gunfortress and
upgrades one of the big gunz on the vehicle into a Soopagun or Supa-Zzap-Gun with the characteristics shown above. A Slaver may added to a big
gun and upgrades the weapons on the unit into a Soopagun or Supa-Zzap-Gun with the characteristics above."

I had to check the original rules to find out that I couldn't just attach the oddboyz to any unit I wanted. Might be nice to include the blurb somewhere in the Handbook?

Again, great summary.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:38 am 
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Hi Gezeder, very good point, thanks for the feedback! :) Will have that and other issues fixed for next version.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:32 pm 
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Change docs (both rules and army lists) have been sent to the editorial crew.

I'll work with CS on getting them posted once I get comments back.  They will be working documents but I hope they will be in a "near-final" format at that point (minus the inevitable and ubiquitous typos).

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:29 pm 
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I got feedback from the crew.  The docs are virtually finished, but I have contacted Francois to get his opinion on the IG changes.  I will give him a few days to respond but given the time lag between contact with him I'm not inclined to wait a long time.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Ok everyone the change docs are up here. I'll be incorporating them into the handbook. Give feedback in Neal's change thread.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Handbook Alpha 2.0 is now up for feedback, updated with changes from Neal's documents.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:31 pm 
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RE: Ulthw? Black Guardians

"0-1 per 2 Eldar Guardian Warhosts (rounding up)"

This isn't actually correct.  Technically, you can take a single Warhost formation (for a very small army) and have it be Black Guardians, the way you've written the rule means at least one "normal" Guardian Warhost is required, but that's not the case.

I'll think of some way of expressing it "simply".

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DaR
 Post subject: Epic Armageddon Handbook - Alpha
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Re: Eldar Renevant Titan Formation.

Change list includes a decrease in cost to 600 for 2, which isn't reflected in either the Biel-Tan or Ulthwe list.
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