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Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:54 am 
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Something a bit different this time. A SM player returning with squats in his first EA game. I think the EA Squat army list he used was 'Thurgrimms' from the resource page (he couldn't access the Demiurg one for some reason?).  

Thus this was not really a playtest for balance as much as an intro to EA for him,  and I used the opportunity to focus on the working of special rules, and the v8.4 'disposable' for gaunts. To this end I used the v8.4 list but I trialed the alternative special rules proposed here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=10598

These are basically just a slimmed down and tidied up version of the v8.4 rules but with one major change - the instinctive rule which myself and others see as problematic in v8.4. Mainly due to the fact that in v8.4 tyranids can still attack after they break (referred to as instinctive in v8.4). That's problematic because it means you could engage a tyranid formation and break it, with the effect that the bugs get a double move past you to attack your artillery or other targets that they would not have been able to attack if you had just left them alone - not a good effect IMHO (and other peoples).  Also the v8.4 instinctive rule results in some counter-intuitive oddities - like attempting a hold action, that if failed lets you take a hold action...  Furthermore I feel there is a general excess of mechanics in the spawning section that it would be advantageous to slim down.

Anyway those are in brief the reasons I thought it was worth evaluating the proposed alternatives to the v8.4 rules. Other than that the v8.4 list was used as is, including the disposable for gaunts, set brood sizes, etc.


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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:17 am 
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FORCES

Due to leaving a box containing all my bug War Engines and Hive Tyrants at home (don't you hate it when that happens!) I had to use a list that was a little atypical for me. Lots of gaunts and lots of carnifexes!! Still perhaps this was a good thing as it meant lots of gaunts got tested, and lots of carnis!

Tyranids
-8 Genestealers
-4 Lictors
-4 Lictors
-3 Warriors, 10 Biovores
-3 Warriors, 8 Hormagaunts, 12 Termis, 4 Gargoyoles
-3 Warriors, 8 Hormagaunts, 12 Termis, 4 Gargoyoles
-3 Warriors, 6 Carnifexes, 1 Exocrine
-3 Warriors, 6 Carnifexes, 1 Exocrine




Squats
-Leviathan, Brotherhood with Supreme Commander
-Colossus
-Overlord
-Overlord
-Brotherhood
-Thunderers
-Goliath
-Bikes
-Bikes
-Trikes
-Berserkers and Termites
-Grand Battery


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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:30 am 
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SETUP

The photo below shows the setup, though after both of us have taken our first couple of actions. I had advanced a gaunt brood into the town, which was then shelled by the Squat Grand Battery of Mole Mortars.  I had fired the biovores at the garrisoned brotherhood killing 1 squad, and the Colossus has advanced and is about to fire on a Carnifex Swarm.

Squat Termites are offboard, and Squat Thunderers and Brotherhood are garrisoned forward on overwatch.

My Tyranids garrisoned the Biovores and Genestealers foward.


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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:47 am 
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TURN 1

To continue on from above - the Colossus opens fire at the carnifex swarm killing 4 carnifexes, a warrior and some gargoyles (I'd ended up adding 4 gargoyles slightly altering the swarm's composition listed above). This swarm breaks and scuttles off behind the biovores.

The rest of the tyranid army advances into the town, taking heavy losses from Squat direct and indirect fire despite protection afforded by the buildings. The Squat bikes and trikes race around the tyranid right flank.

End of turn the Tyranids spawn back a few units, and a big bunch of gaunts join the forward most carnifex swarm. 1 hormagaunt on the right goes to ground.


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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:58 am 
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TURN 2

I teleport the Licotrs behind the Squat lines, one brood near the Brand Battery, and the other behind the wooded hill to the Colossus's right. Winning strategy roll (on a tie), the Lictors kill all but one of the Grand Battery (and the intermingled Overlord flies away unscathed but broken). The other Lictors then retain, and passing the Colossus, assault the brotherhood inbetween the Colossus and Leviathan. Final combat result kills all but one of the squat squads. One Lictor miraculously survives the assault (which included 12 FF3+ support fire attacks from the Leviathan and Colossus  and some very lucky invulnerable saves!). This remaining broken Lictor scoots back behind a building closer to the tyranid lines (see bottom right of pic in next post).

The Overlords, Colossus and Leviathan blast the oncoming tyranids. All Genestealers are wiped out bar one which retreats, and a Carnifex Swarm and Gaunt Swarm advance around the Leviathan. Biovores hit the Leviathan inflicting 6BM but doing no damage.

Under fire from the Thunderers the Gaunt Swarm on the right pull back. Remains of a Carnifex Swarm moves to shore up the Tyranid right flank.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:24 am 
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TURN 3

The Termites and Beserkers emerge behind the Biovore Swarm...




Tyranids win strategy roll again! A Carnifex Swarm assaults the the still loaded Leviathan...



...and there are no survivors. Only a couple of hormagaunts are lost on the Tyranid side.



The Biovores then fail their activation test to sustain fire and so just shoot the Berserkers normally, killing two stands.

The Squat Goliath shoots and breaks the 3 strong Lictor formation that is still lurking behind the Squat lines.  

The Colossus shoots the Carnifex Swarm killing 5 Carnifexes.

The Gaunt swarm is just in range of the Squat Thunderers and engages, getting lucky and breaking them. The Squat bikes move in and eliminate the rightmost Tyranid swarm.

The lone Lictor (bottom right of above photo) marches to claim the Squat Blitz.

A depleted Gaunt Swarm doubles and crossfires the Berserkers placing 2 blastmarkers. The Berserkers engage the Biovores, but are outumbered too heavily, and retreat broken.

The Overlords both move and shoot the lone Lictor that has taken the Squat blitz, but miss and the Lictor claims the objective.

End of turn - Tyranids have 'Blitz and Break Their Spirit' objectives. 2-0 and game to bugs.


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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:43 am 
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CONCLUSIONS

Well good to see the Squats in action. Is anyone familiar with the Squat lists and issues with them? A bit confusing was the 'spotting' for the gyrocopter, and how the Leviathan's transport other formations(?). For this game we counted it as being of the same formation (same as orks). A lot of MW barrage in the squat army! Especially nasty with the change to AT as AP on the barrage table.

Regarding the changes to Tyranids in V8.4. Firstly the set swarm size clusters - I quite liked the way it speeds up army composition so it might be ok. More games needed.
Disposable - well it certainly makes gaunts swarms considerably more deadly - they are just unstoppable except by an engage, or by shooting them dead (which is entirely possible).

Also as I have raised before, once again I was concerned about the power of Lictors. They are all or nothing, overwhelmingly deadly or not, depending on a single strategy roll. It doesn't make for a good game, and it isn't a good conceptulisation of them IMHO. Their killing power should be reduced (they shouldn't be as deadly as a carnifex! ...and actually they are even more so cos of first strike.) and they should gain back their reinforced armour (they are supposed to be hard to shoot!).


Regarding the experimental special rules I was using - I think they were good, except that seeing it in action has me leaning towards ditching the 'no BM for coming under fire' rule (as I hinted at in the exp special rule thread). I think it maybe a bit nasty on top of Disposable, and especially for things like that last lone Lictor that just wouldn't die and couldn't be broken (effectively winning the game). Ditching it would also simplify things even further which would be a good thing.

I also wonder about the ideas E&C raised about tyranids having to rally. Like maybe they should auto-rally but rather than losing all BM they lose half (and maybe give some Synapse Creatures Leader).  That way they are still much better off compared to other forces, but they don't have this automatic and artificial feeling dichotomy going from damaged to perfectly ok just because the turn changes.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:03 am 
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A couple more pics...

First here is the tyranid casualty pile at the end of the game!  :D  Those squats certainly didn't mess about!




Second here are two Squat WE's that didn't take part in the game but posted so you can admire them!


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Dave
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:44 pm 
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(Markconz @ Sep. 30 2007,05:43)
QUOTE
Like maybe they should auto-rally but rather than losing all BM they lose half.

I suggested that awhile back, no one else seemed to argue for it though.

It would be good for those disposable swarms, if that is the way forward.  I still think we could do without them though.  How many times did any of your disposable swarms break in this game?

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:19 am 
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(Dave @ Oct. 01 2007,12:44)
QUOTE
It would be good for those disposable swarms, if that is the way forward.  I still think we could do without them though.  How many times did any of your disposable swarms break in this game?

Disposable swarms breaking - never! Just 3 Warriors and some gaunts can't really break. However, with BM for coming under fire it would happen and I think the disposable is worth persisting with for a bit.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:26 pm 
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Just a quick question. you have warriors leading AV swarms.  How did they fair?  I thought that they would need a bit of Inf shielding to stop them being popped.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: 3K Tyranids 8.4x vs Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Infantry did end up joining those swarms turn 2, so not so much a problem. Otherwise yes.

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