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On spawning
Moscovian
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:23 pm 
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&&&BOOOOOOOM!!!&&&****%%% ?<--- That is the sound of my head exploding after reading this. ?The idea is clever but way too complex, especially in light of the list being heavy on special rules to begin with.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:32 pm 
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Doubling spawn values is better than dividing by two all the time, if you were to go down this route...

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Dave
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:44 pm 
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Hena,

Did you ever player Striker II?  You'd like that rule set.  Detailed mechanics like that are abound in the rules.

I think this is too complex for a game of Epic.  With the majority of players against things like variable armament units and piles of special rules I don't think this would be a step in a better direction.

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Markconz
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:14 am 
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(Hena @ Sep. 24 2007,18:14)
QUOTE
...it's tad complex :D.

Yes   :;):

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Markconz
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:43 pm 
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(Hena @ Sep. 25 2007,10:33)
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Against Marconzs system
There is a one bigger thing here. You've effectively stopped Tyrant from spawning Haruspex/Malefactor. This is major thing as the Tyrant needs AV to protect itself. Now without aid you can only spawn Carnifex.

You can spawn one of these larger beasties while further away from enemy, or if the tyrant has tyranid warrior support .

Spawning a carnifex right to the enemy has always felt bad enough to me (and opponents see it as unpleasant). I don't see the need to be able to pop something even larger right next to the enemy as a major omission but rather something in favour of the system (or at least not against it).

Agreed that I don't like the fixed spawning in v8.4.

Brood nests - the first thing that struck me was that you can't attack them, hmm. Yeah not sure about them.

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Markconz
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:21 pm 
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Well in terms of size there is carnifex, and then all the others. The dactylis and exocrine are same type and size as malefactor or haruspex (a bug slug tank) they are just worth more because they have the ranged shooting. I don't see good justification for the spawning split you propose sorry.

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Markconz
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:41 pm 
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Meh, I just don't think it is that big a deal. The old system collapsed under the weight of continuous minor modifications being stacked on top of one another.  That's why I got rid of lots of them. As explained in the special rule thread the variable vs automatic spawning is an illusion anyway and already accounted for well enough with the proposed system, and there is an option for broken swarms to spawn but you are the only one who seems strongly in favour of it.

I'm currently wondering if there is a way to ditch the brood X numbers to get back to Jervis's original vision... don't really know if it's possible though.

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Dave
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:07 pm 
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(Hena @ Sep. 25 2007,06:33)
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You've effectively stopped Tyrant from spawning Haruspex/Malefactor. This is major thing as the Tyrant needs AV to protect itself. Now without aid you can only spawn Carnifex. This is not good.

You could if you were greater than 30cm from an enemy unit.  That kind of makes sense to me too.  I can't believe a beast of that size would be wandering around close to enemy formations unchecked.

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Markconz
 Post subject: On spawning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:16 pm 
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(Hena @ Sep. 25 2007,12:54)
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Illusion? You mean possibly this?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....y223040

In which case you're wrong. The difference is that there is a chance to fail the spawning or spawn 0 units. Your proposal does not have that. The original ini 1+ had the very problem that meant that there was automatic spawning. It was immediately hated by my opponents here.

Note your opponents were playing a set of rules that was very different in lots of other ways.

Also I'm actually  talking about the option later in that thread, ie making spawning automatic for both, but less effective if broken.

Another alternative I thought of but didn't mention was just making the modifiers:
-No enemy units within 30cm of any unit in the Brood Swarm +D3
-Brood Swarm is broken -D3

However, obviously I'm not sticking in stuff like this if it is supported only by one person.


Anyway I've don't think this thread is very productive. Basically I think you want a level of complexity and detail that is not suited to epic.  That approach led to widespread rejection of the tyranid list to the point where most people were just refusing to use it.

You seem to have overwhelming objections to both v8.4 and my own proposals. Why not come up with your own full set of rules and see if other people actually like them?

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