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Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:13 pm

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This weekend was a Raiders weekend. ?We played Minervans vs Dark Eldar and Minervans vs. Necrons. ?Each game was 2700 points and featured the three armies in three combinations. ?It was great to finally field them all and see them interacting for an entire day of battle.

Pictures are coming soon (left the camera at home, folks - sorry!) so if you are looking for pictures come back later tonight. EDIT Pics are now posted.

Summary of the battles are below, however, along with some of my thoughts on the armies themselves.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:07 pm

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Game One - Minervans vs. Dark Eldar. Also known as the shortest game ever. Total time played 57 minutes (with
set-up).

This game didn't last long. We played just one full turn before we concluded it was very over.

Minervans fielded the following:
1 Tank Platoon (don't remember compostion) + flak
1 Tank Company (2 Destroyers and other stuff) + flak
1 SHT Company (Stormblade, Stormhammer, Baneblade) with Hellhound reinforcements + flak
1 Artillery Company (Baselisks) +flak
2 Thunderbolt formations
1 Deathstrike Missle platoon
1 Scout Company

There were some upgrades to things but to be honest it doesn't really matter.

Dark Eldar Kabal of the Pummeled Spleen
1 Tormentor Titan (BTS)
1 Coterie with Barge Upgrade and Archon
1 Flotilla (4 Ravagers neat)
1 Syndicate with extra 2 Warriors, 4 Raiders
1 Slavebringer Assault Module carrying...
1 Wych formation, 6 Wyches, 2 Warp Beasts
1 Reaver formation (4)
1 Raven fighter formation (2)
1 Kashnarak

Turn One
The Artillery fired and took out a single Raider. The transported troops managed to make their cover saves but this left 3 Raiders and
8 Warriors (not good for bounding across the battlefield).

Ravagers escape the Webway and double toward the Death Strikes with a move-shoot-move. The impact on these lonely
Deathstrikes is less than stellar: I managed to hit nothing, leaving behind a solitary blast marker. The Ravagers move behind terrain to
escape being horribly punished (or so I thought).

The one viable Deathstrike manages to fire and smash my Tormentor with a 6 out of 6 TK hit. This strips the 3 shadowfields and
leaves him with a single DC left. He's broken, obviously.

Thunderbolts came in and broke the Reavers before they could get off the starting block.

Ravens went to intercept but had to stand down (failed activation).

The SHTs move up and meet the Ravagers. Despite being partially obscured by terrain, two of the four meet a grissly demise in a
wave of firepower that would leave most Ork bands wiped out. The remaining two flee for the hills.

With few options, I launch my Slavebringer and Wyches to take on the Artillery company which is IG's far left flank. Two Hydras
stand in my way of tkaing this thing out. Out of four shots the Hydras hit 3 times, stripping the 1 shadowfield and taking down the
assault boat (both saves fail). There goes 625 points.

At this point I moved my hobbled Raiders up to take cover against a cliffside on a march order.

The Tank platoon moved up and into position to take them on the next turn.

My Coterie moved up to support the Syndicate.

The second set of Thunderbolts straffed the last two broken Ravagers wiping them out.

Tank Company moved up and into position.

Then we stopped. I realized I had caused no casualties and left one BM on the Minervans and I had less than half of my army left.
The Dark Eldar were wiped out before they could do anything. We played a movement or two into the next turn but finally realized
the time was being wasted after the Tormentor was destroyed on the first activation (2nd Deathstrike fired and hit).

Summary:

Slavebringers are either two expensive or too fragile. They don't compare well against the Vampire or the Thunderhawk and
probably need some tweaking. Not sure what yet, so I am open to suggestions.

Deathstrikes are ugly. We didn't play the new revised stats (not sure what has been decided with them if anything) but D6 is
huge. They can't be changed too soon. :angry:

We have played with them in the past but ePilgrim didn't field them too often because
of the cheese factor.

New SHTs. This was our first taste of them. They seemed to put out a LOT of firepower but we reserved judgment till later.

2700 point games in general are unforgiving. With this kind of start it turned out to be the least helpful playtest of the night.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:04 pm

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Game Two - Necron vs. Minervans aka The Necrons can actually lose!

Special Rules used for Necrons: Variable SR of 3/1 (see Necron thread). Initiative of 2+ for Monoliths, Obelisks, and Pylons.

Minervans fielded the following:
2 Tank Platoons (don't remember compostion) + flak
1 Tank Company (2 Destroyers and other stuff) + flak
1 SHT Company (Stormblade, Stormhammer, Baneblade) with Hellhound reinforcements + Russ reinforcements + flak
2 Scout Companies

I can't remember the specifics but it felt like verything had Hellhounds...

Necrons fielded the following:
Tomb Complex
C'tan the Nightbringer
1 Warbarque
1 Pylon
2 Monoliths each reinforced with 2 Obelisks
1 Monolith flyin' solo
1 Flayed Ones formation
1 Phalanx
1 Phalanx with Pariah and Wraith
1 Phalanx with 2 Tomb Spyders, 2 Immortals, 1 Pariah (BTS)

This was one of those games that my poor playing exacerbated the bad dice roles. I don't know if I was just out of practice or still reeling from the DE loss or perhaps just got too lazy from playing the Necron before. But the end result was the same. They lost!

Teleporting went well with a BM on the C'tan and a Monolith formation. I placed two of the Monoliths on the Minervan left flank, one on the right. Warbarque was set in the back field of course. Pylon teleported inon top of a hill.

Initiative went to the Minervans. He fired at the left reinforced Monolith formation with a Tank Platoon and POOF it was gone. He hit 5 times I didn't make a single save.

Retaining went well and his scouts shot at the lone Monolith. Despite hitting only once, I missed the save again and it was gone.

Keeping track? I lost two of five portals on the board and I haven't even moved.

I move my Phalanx #2 (with wraith) out of the last monolith and assault the far right tank plattoon. Despite getting support from the Monolith, C'tan, and Obelisks, they are wiped out to the man. Nothing remains. One of six Russes are killed.

I retain with the Flayed Ones and assault them again, thinking that the CC combined with the BM advantage would help. I kill 2 more Russ and the Flayed Ones are wiped out again.

Now that this tank platoon has taken out two of my formations en toto it moves and fires at my Monolith formation, taking out the portal and leaving a lone Obelisk to float around broken.

I fire at the SHT company with the Pylon and take out the Baneblade. Hey! I killed something big! I revel, but I don't want to lose the momentum either. I retain and attack with the C'tan and do two damage to the Stormblade. The resulting supporting fire combined with the SHT firefighting forces the C'tan to lose the assault and break.

From here it was a big blur but the result was by the end of turn 1 I had lost every monolith formation and two of four infantry formations. One formation managed to come through the Warbarque and take up position for the next turn. The tank platoon was broken by my Warbarque fire and didn't rally.

Turn 2 initiative went to IG again. :glare:

The Scout Company moved up and shot at my Warbarque. Four hits, 3 failed saves. It dawned on me by this point that I hadn't made a successful armor roll in a long time (save for the C'tan). The Warbarque was gone before I could bring out my big Infantry formation.

Retaining, the Minervans took the second tank platoon and smashed my one fielded Phalanx. They broke.

The Pylon fired again and missed. Pffffft.

SHT company moved up and broke the Pylon with the one shot in range (1 DC remained).

There wasn't much left to this turn. I moved my BTS on a double from the Tomb Complex toward the center of the board. The C'tan died in a rather unglorious fashion. Not with a bang but a whimper. The broken platoon rallied but my Pylon did not.

Turn 3 the last great act of defiance. I managed to use the tomb complex for my now rallied small phalanx and moved the remaining two formations I had to control all three of my objectives (two with the big one and the complex with the small one). But with so many activations left the IG just ground my Phalanx down. In one IG volley I went from 2-0 (Hold the line, defend the flag) to 0-3 (Take and Hold, BTS, hold the line).

Summary:
Necrons losing was a mixed feeling for me. I never like to lose but it was the first time I had ever seen the Necrons lose.

Variable SR: While it had zero impact, I think it is a good idea. It felt fine.

Initiative changes: Had zero impact. I doubt they will ever have an impact. The big thing for the Monoliths is their ability to teleport and the initiative change doesn't prevent that at all. Same with the Pylon (but to a lesser degree). Plus I just don't see this being in line with the fluff. Missing your initiative roll should be attributable to some loss of organization or crossing of orders or whatever. We're talking about big blocks not getting their orders right? Doesn't make sense to me. I voiced my concerns on this when it was proposed but at least I can say I tried it.

The real killer: something was missing from this list that I believe is the remaining broken part of the list. Stay tuned for batrep three.

Tank Platoons: whatever loss of variety the Minervans have is more than made up for with these 6 strong formations. They alone tell me the tank 'discounts' for this list are unwarranted. Both ePilgrim and I agreed that the tank prices need to be bumped to be in line with the steel legion.

SHTs: ePilgrim will chime in later on this but the firepower of these variants are too much. Not sure by how much (I was too busy removing my dead to figure it out).

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stugmeister

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:09 pm

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I look forward to seeing the photos for these battles!

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:23 pm

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Looks like we can't comment too much on your tactics with such dice... but:

Teleporting went well with a BM on the C'tan and a Monolith formation. I placed two of the Monoliths on the Minervan left flank, one on the right. Warbarque was set in the back field of course. Pylon teleported inon top of a hill.

Why wouldn't you teleport all the Monoliths next to a single enemy formation?

This is how Necrons win games (They support an Engagement with 3-5 Monoliths and nuke the enemy formation).

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:53 pm

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Game Three: Dark Eldar vs. Necrons aka Dark Forces Clash

Necrons fielded by ePilgrim bring the following:
#1 Phalanx with Pariah
#2 Phalanx with Wraith
#3 Phalanx
#4 Phalanx
1 Eques of Destroyers (no heavies)
1 Aeonic Orb
3 Monoliths, each with two Obelisks each

Turns out he was over by 65 points, but we didn't realize it at the time.

Dark Eldar fielded by me with the following:
1 Coterie with Barge Upgrade and Archon
1 Flotilla (4 Ravagers + 1 Vessel of Pain)
1 Syndicate, 3 Raiders + 2 Mandrakes
1 Syndicate + Ravager
1 Reaver formation (4)
1 Kashnarak
1 Wych formation with 6 Wyches (3 Raiders) + 1 Ravager
1 Wych formation with Ravager + Sybarite
1 Talos formation with Perditor
1 webway portal

Deployment: Necron were all off board save for the Orb. DE deployed across the entire back field.

Teleporting: Necron teleport three Monolith formations behind the Dark Eldar Syndicates, mostly on my right flank.

Initiative went to the DE

Turn 1
The Flotilla with Vessel of Pain doubled forward and managed to land a good hit on the Orb. Two DC taken from the mighty war engine was a great way to start. I retained and fired at one of the monoliths while withdrawing my warriors & raiders away (shoot-move). Nothing was accomplished except leaving a BM.

Destroyers came through the portal first and wiped out my heavy Wych formation in a single volley. 6 Infantry and, and 3 Raiders were taken out in one blow leaving a broken Ravager to run for its life.

Retaining, he brought a phalanx through another Monolith and shot at one of my syndicates. I lost one Raider and the Warriors on board.

Syndicate #2 failed its activation and moved away from the Monoliths before losing anything more.

The Orb fired on the Flotilla and just left BMs (4 of them!). Oddly enough I made every armor roll.

The Coterie fired and took out a Monolith and Obelisk then moved to join the rest of the advancing (retreating?) Dark Eldar formations.

Another Phalanx comes into the back field and shoots at my Reavers. I lose 2 of the 4 - they break and head for the hills (80cm retreat - wooohooo!).

Talos formation, being on the far flank (bad position in retorspect) marched up the road to get to the center of the board.

Monoliths and Obelisks moved and shot at Syndicate #2, leaving a BM and shaken nerves.

The remaining Wych formation shot at the Destroyers and then retreated toward the wraithgate, leaving only a blast marker on the Necron fast attack formation.

The remaining monolith formations just move around and take pop shots at me. One of them fails its activation and breaks which ends up being quite a boon for the Necron. Another doubles and gets as close as it can to the webway portal.

Reavers rally. Ravager does not.

Pre Turn 2: Kashnarak comes through the webway. Instead of attacking the Monolith, the Wyches there to direct its movement. It marches 60 cm and gets as close as it can to a Monolith and nearby Phalanx.

Teleporting Obelisk shows up to bolster the Monolith near the Webway.

Turn 2: Initiative goes to the Dark Eldar.

Flotilla fire first again at the Orb. Moving only a single this time they ironically cause only a single point of damage.

Destroyers move up and fire at the Wyches, wiping out every infantry unit and vehicle.

The Talos turn and assault... the lone Obelisk. I confused the lone obelisk with the Monolith formation there. I killed it easily, but it really didn't go the way I wanted.

I retain and fire at the Monolith with my Syndicate on a sustained fire. Another mistake - I should have shot and run.

A phalanx moves up and shoots at my Syndicate. A loss of one Raider, two warriors, and one Ravager.

The Monolith fires and wipes out the remaining portion of the Syndicate.

My coterie (widely ignored the whole game) is out of position for assault. It moves and fires at a Phalanx. It loses 3 Warriors. I move away and into the center of the board to take on the destroyers the next turn.

The Orb, not wanting a loss of another Monolith, fires at my Talos formation. I lose only one Talos, but it is enough to break the formation. They sit fearless, waiting for the next turn.

The Reavers are shot at with extreme range by a Monolith formation and a single broken Reaver flees again.

Some other jockeying around takes place.

The Talos rally. The lone Ravager does not (again). The Reaver rallies. The Orb sheds some of its blast markers and the Syndicate is down to one BM. These two BTS giants are within 15cm of each other and whoever wins the initiative is going to blow away whoever doesn't.

Where things go to the Necron
Pre Turn 3: Kashnarak charges the Destroyers. Despite the fact they are skimmers the assault goes on. Two damage are placed on the Kashnarak, but the assault resolution still comes down to only +1 to the Necron side. Dice are rolled and.... The Destroyers win. Ugh.

Turn 3: No teleports.

Initiative goes to.... the Necron.

The Orb fires at the Flotilla and wipes out everything except the Vessel of Pain. It has one shield remaining, but the thing is broken. I stupidly hide it near the Tomb Complex, forgetting there is an entire formation of Necrons that haven't even been activated.

Retaining, the Destroyers fire at what is left of my Phalanx and wipe it out.

The Barge with Coterie fires at the Destroyers and kills 1 more, so these things are down to four units despite killing three formations by themselves.

The Talos (too far away to CC) move in close to the Monolith formation and fire. Nothing dies but a BM is placed.

The Necrons use an excellent maneuver and synchronize ther portals. A 'stranded' Phalanx goes through the a Monolith and comes through the one nearest my Talos formation. The assault begins. The Talos, too far away to CC the Phalanx, CC the remaining Obelisk and bring them into the assault. The Phalanx wins the assault but only one more Talos is lost. The Perditor and two Talos stay put.

My heavily damaged Syndicate makes a run for a Necron Objective to control it.

The last Necron phalanx makes its grand entrance and assaults my VoP. It is still broken and loses the assault, but doesn't die. It retreats in the hopes of rallying. One shot could mean taking out the Orb and the Necron BTS goal.

My Reaver marches 120cm (!!!) and grabs another.

The VOP fails to rally. The Talos rally.

We're both sitting on Take and Hold with nothing else (1-1) so we go into Turn 4.

The Kashnarak remains broken.

Things aren't looking good for the Dark Eldar at this point. The remainder of the game is very much mop up for the Necrons and we call it a victory for the Implacable advance about half way through. It is 2am at this point and ePilgrim has a two hour drive ahead of him.

Summary:
The Dark Eldar are unforgiving. I've said it before but I'll say it again. You can't make mistakes and I made three. Had I not made those mistakes it could have meant a victory (or at least a closer game)

The Necron. ePilgrim and I agree at this point there are some things that need to be changed.

1. First and foremost are the Destroyers. They are just gross. I've made this point every time I've posted a batrep and now seeing them in action AGAINST me it is even worse. They need a change. Cutting their firepower in half would do the trick. The fact that the only army I have ever lost with the Necron did NOT have the Destroyers should not be lost on the audience here. They are herders and deadly ones at that. Without them the Necrons really feel the pinch on mobility. With them the Necrons are unbeatable. You can change their point values slightly - 300 points for 6 of them with only 6 shots each sounds fine to me.

2. The Orb. It really doesn't need BP12. Change it to BP8 and it will still have the same firepower - just less BMs. Dropping 4 BMs just because you shot at my formation is ridiculous.

3. Keep the SR change. Did anyone notice there was no SC for the Necrons this game?

4. Initiative changes. This game the Necron played with no Supreme Commander and they barely needed it. Why? Because the primary formation type has an initiative of 1 and they hide off board, avoiding BMs, until they are needed. Put the infantry at a 2+ like I suggested and everything at a 1+.

5. Radical thought. I would like to playtest the Necron where their broken formations remain on the board and the unbroken ones have the option to pull and re-deploy. The more I think about this the more I believe it will be better for the list. No longer will the Necrons thrive on breaking their formations.

Dark Eldar.

Coterie is worthless. I'm considering changing the value to probably 200 points for the formation. You cna only have 1 per army and it is silly to get 4 infantry and 2 raiders for 300 points when you can get 6 infantry with ranged weaponry and 3 raiders for 100 points less.

Vessel of Pain. I think the armor should be down to 4. I am fine with it not having reinforced armor, but at 5+ it is a piece of glass.

Talos and Perditor worked very well this game.

Raiders and Ravagers. Despite their tremendous ability to die, I am hesitant to change them. I think they need to remain as is.

Slavebringer. I still don't like the idea that I can max out my Titan/Aircraft allowance and bring as many of these as I want. Unless the other DE developers chime in, I will most likely be changing these to part of the WE/Aircraft list like so many have suggested.

Kasnarak. It played no part in Game 1 and very little in Game 2. While I am still off on having a DC4 WE coming out of the webway, it plays well and hasn't seemed to unbalance the games at all. In fact it has had little impact on any game from what I can tell.

Thoughts on all batreps are welcome.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:57 pm

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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 17 2007,11:23)

QUOTE

Looks like we can't comment too much on your tactics with such dice... but:

Teleporting went well with a BM on the C'tan and a Monolith formation. ?I placed two of the Monoliths on the Minervan left flank, one on the right. ?Warbarque was set in the back field of course. ?Pylon teleported inon top of a hill. ?

Why wouldn't you teleport all the Monoliths next to a single enemy formation?

This is how Necrons win games (They support an Engagement with 3-5 Monoliths and nuke the enemy formation).

As I said, it wasn't my best game. I've played this tacic before where I hit both flanks and it has worked fine. Apparently not this game.

Given the tight deployment the Minervans made combined with the range of the Minervan weapons and the bad dice roll, the split flank attack didn't make a bit of difference. Those two Monoliths were gone no matter where I put them (unless I placed them in the back of the board next to my Tomb Complex).

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Chroma

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:15 pm

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(Moscovian @ Sep. 17 2007,17:53)

QUOTE

Retaining, he brought a phalanx through another Monolith and shot at one of my syndicates. ?I lost one Raider and the Warriors on board.

Phalanxes shooting?! *laugh*

I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing! Why didn't your opponent assault with Monolith support?

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:06 pm

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Well in this particular case it made perfect sense. The Eldar Raiders were packed with Warriors that are very good assault troops. While he might have gotten some support from the Monolith formation, by shooting he was able to do damage to me without any repercussions.

Keep in mind the Raiders and Ravagers are light vehicles so they take damage from AP shots as well. A single AP shot can take out a Raider and two Warriors - it stinks but it is the Dark Eldar.

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Chroma

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:12 pm

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(Moscovian @ Sep. 17 2007,20:06)

QUOTE

Keep in mind the Raiders and Ravagers are light vehicles so they take damage from AP shots as well. ?A single AP shot can take out a Raider and two Warriors - it stinks but it is the Dark Eldar.

Ah, that does make a lot more sense now.

Of course, the Necrons could've tried to *base* the Raiders with two Necron Warriors each and trapped the poor DE inside... *laugh*

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:15 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
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They weren't that close... Besides it wouldn't do any good. Raiders and Barges allow the DE to shoot and firefight from inside. It would be the worst idea ever!

In other words, ePilgrim did the right thing all around. He played to maximize his troops while minimizing mine... What a dog.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:57 am

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Game 1. Set Up. Keep in mind, folks, that the infantry for the Dark Eldar aren't done yet.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:00 am

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Ravagers hiding from the SHTs.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:04 am

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Game 2 - the Necron attack the IG.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Batreps for Necrons, Minervans, Dark Eldar

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:08 am

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Attack from the one remaining Monolith.

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