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[Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
1+, no special modifiers 39%  39%  [ 7 ]
2+, no special modifiers 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
1+, -1 for Sustained Fire and Advance (or other combination of actions) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2+, with +1 for Engage and March 39%  39%  [ 7 ]
Something else (explained below) 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 18

[Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:42 am 
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Okay, the newest 8.x list has, because they're affected by Blast markers now, set the Tyranid initiative to 1+

I like this; to me it represents that, when the Hive Mind is in complete control of Its creatures, it by-gum gets things done!  *laugh*  Leave Tyranids alone, and they well spawn and breed like nobody's business!  Harass them a bit, and it makes it tougher for them.

Now this has made them better at sustaining and spawning and such, which has been seen as a potential problem.

So, what do people think would be the best way of going about this?  I may have missed some options, though I think I nailed the main ones, so let's discuss!

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Lord_Aba
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:33 am 
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While I don't have too many games under my belt to really discuss the underlining issue, I do request that  the rules be made simple and to the point. It keeps games flowing.

I like special rules, but when you layer them on thick it becomes a pain to remember.
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Markconz
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:21 am 
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Hmm will have to get back to you on this one.

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Morg
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:49 pm 
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(Lord_Aba @ Jul. 04 2007,06:33)
QUOTE
While I don't have too many games under my belt to really discuss the underlining issue, I do request that  the rules be made simple and to the point. It keeps games flowing.

I like special rules, but when you layer them on thick it becomes a pain to remember.

I don't think that a bonus modifier for initiative on an engage or march is too much special rules.

We already have that for the orks and it's not overly complicated either.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:37 pm 
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(Morg @ Jul. 06 2007,14:49)
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I don't think that a bonus modifier for initiative on an engage or march is too much special rules.

If the initiative modifier option is added to the list, it would probably fall under the "Relentless" special rule.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:57 am 
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Managed to get my first game in with 8.2 at the weekend against Marines. Will post a summary and conclusions later but in the meantime both myself and my opponent felt that the initiative felt wrong and that 2+ with bonus to engage and march would fit the army better.

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phindar
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:47 pm 
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maybe this is complicating things a little too much which I wouldn't like to but I would like to see an instintive behavior table (like in BFG).

So, there should be a list of Actions that a formation is supposed to take (acting on incstint) and if they want to do something different, ?they should get a modifier.

So, ?you leave the 1+ activation but then:
(examples)
If there's a unit within charge range the formation must charge.

If there's no unit within shooting range, the formation must march.

If there was a formation within assault range and the formation decides not to assault, ?then they get a -1.

Marshal is not an action that the hive mind requires often. ?Her troops are disposable and usually kamikaze.
So marshal will never be on the behavior list. ?That way, ?it would always come with a -1.
That would leave a 1+ for what would be expected from a swarm to a potential 3+ when doing something against their nature and after markers.  I think it balances things a lot.


Does this sound too complicated?
Do you know the BFG table?
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Morg
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:51 pm 
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The initiative table is too much special rules for my taste.

Btw, I played two games during the weekend with the 2+ rule mod and found it pretty fitting. The other guys there alternated between 1+ and 2+ and also preferred the 2+ version. To quote "it was more in character".




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phindar
 Post subject: [Discussion] Tyranid Initiative Rating
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:07 pm 
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You are not obligued to march. ?It means that marching towards the enemy would be the instinctive thing to do.
So, if your activation would be marching (just to give an example), you would do it without penalty. ?If you instead choose to, lets say, overwatch, you would do it with a -1 representng the conflict of the creature for acting against its nature.

The idea is to have a table of what the instinctive thing to do would be. ?If you decide to do something different, ?you would get a -1 to activate.

The table shouldn't be something complicated and after a game, ?you would remember it. ?Something as simple as:
if you are within assault range, ?you must charge.
If you are not within assault range but within shooting range you must move towards the enemy and shoot.
If you are out of range you must doble and shoot.

This table is just an example. ?Of course each movement should be justified by fluff:
if you are within range, ?you must move towards the enemy and shoot. ?This represents the urge of the creatures for an assault (and prevents sustained fire which I see unfluffy).
Of course, in this example, ?the formation would still be able to sustain but that they would have a -1 to do so.

You can also work this table the other way arround.
Give everything a 2+ to activate and then a +1 to those activations that would be instinctive. ?But I like better the first approach because you can control better waht you expect the bugs to do.

Maybe, formations with 100% of synapse creatures are immune to behavior penalties. ?So biotitans would have no penalties.

What I like about this idea is that you represent the behavior of the bugs.   Last game I played,  A carniflex formation within assault range did not engage. While I think that was a smart thing to do,  it would be completely against MY VISION of what bugs would do.  The hive mind does not care if you lose a formation or not.  I say that would be against instinct and in order not to engage, all the other actions should have had a -1.  

Of course,  this is just an idea and my point of view of how bugs should act.
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