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Manticores poll and review
No change 72%  72%  [ 21 ]
Upgrade for Basilisks (specify cost below) 28%  28%  [ 8 ]
Other (specify below) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 29

Manticores poll and review
Dave
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:26 pm 
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And here's number two for the week.

I cannot comment on Manticores as I have yet to use them in a game.  To get the discussion going though the general idea I got from the main review thread was that they were under priced.  How would people feel about paying some points to upgrade 3 Basilisks to 3 Manticores?  Whether they be in the Artillery Company of Battery.  Say 50 points for 3?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:38 pm 
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I'd prefer an upgrade cost, as I find Basilisks to be slightly inferior, even with their auxilliary direct-fire mode.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:38 am 
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With the barrage changes it comes down to Basilisks better in companies, manticores in batteries (they lack survivability and big formations lose out in terms of the barrage table).

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Dave
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:32 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Jun. 06 2007,22:38)
QUOTE
With the barrage changes it comes down to Basilisks better in companies, manticores in batteries (they lack survivability and big formations lose out in terms of the barrage table).

I don't get how Basilisks are better in companies than Manticores.

9 Basilisks will give you 9BP every turn, 9 Manticores could give you alternating turns of 8BP & 10BP if you fired 4 one turn and 5 the next.

BP       Xtr T  Xtr BM  AP  AT
8-9      Two   One     4+  5+
10-12  Two   Two     4+  5+

What am I missing?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:36 pm 
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(Dave @ Jun. 07 2007,13:32)
QUOTE
What am I missing?

Perhaps the effects of suppression?  Losing 2BP per BM as opposed to 1BP?

I'm not sure.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:34 pm 
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Manticores have Disrupt so will guarantee more BM than the Basilisk Company.




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:43 pm 
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You can get the 8BP / 10BP effect with 8 Basilisks and 1 Manticore.  The drawback is you don't get disrupt, but at the same time you do get the direct fire option.  I like that in a tourney game since most boards are played the short way and your opponent is usually up in your face before you know it.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:14 pm 
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Basilisks are 5+ armour save, manticores 6+. Too fragile to have 9 in a company. Try it, you will see what I mean - also 9 direct firing basilisks are a good eldar av detarant :)

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NOVAGUARD
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:07 pm 
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i dont see the issue with them as they are... maticores in companies usually die horribly..( 6+ armour and they are usually without fail the 1st thing to get targeted.)

batteries make more sense as they are less common than the bassie...

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Markconz
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:42 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Jun. 07 2007,17:14)
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Basilisks are 5+ armour save, manticores 6+. Too fragile to have 9 in a company. Try it, you will see what I mean - also 9 direct firing basilisks are a good eldar av detarant :)

9 direct firing basilisks isn't really any more of a eldar AV deterrent than 9 indirectly firing basilisks because the barrage table is changing to AT5+ at 3BP. Indirect 4+ vs direct overwatch 4+?

Isn't this something of a problem. Basilisks have an ability they shouldn't bother using, and manticores get even more effective compared to basilisks.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Manticores poll and review
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:46 am 
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(Markconz @ Jun. 28 2007,22:42)
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9 direct firing basilisks isn't really any more of a eldar AV deterrent than 9 indirectly firing basilisks because the barrage table is changing to AT5+ at 3BP. Indirect 4+ vs direct overwatch 4+?

Well, against a 5-strong Swords of Vaul, the Manticores can get a max of: 5 hits.   The direct-firing Basilisks can get a max of: 9 hits... almost double, so that's something in their favour... not much, I grant, but something.

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