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Chaos Harbinger
Moscovian
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:49 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 20 2007,16:35)
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I don't think it will ever work in EA's air combat system. ?It's simply not meant to handle anything like that.

My first reaction would be to handle it like spacecraft support.

And yet another support craft creeps into EA. :D

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:57 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Jun. 20 2007,22:30)
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Personally, I love everything about it except the price.

I suppose you could say that about most of the Epic models :D :p :;):

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:25 am 
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It's nice ... and expensive ... but I'll probably buy it ... :glare:

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zap123
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:34 am 
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(Chroma @ Jun. 20 2007,21:48)
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(Moscovian @ Jun. 20 2007,21:30)
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Well if it makes you feel better there is no way that thing would be able to fly ?:p ? Does that scream unnatural enough for you?

Personally, I love everything about it except the price.

To me it looks like a Narn battlecruiser.

It looks cool... but not "Chaotic".

Funny, my first impression was Centauri Primus :)

I'm in the "doubt I'd even think about shelling out the readies for that thing" camp.  Maybe at 15 quid....but 35????

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:44 am 
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(nealhunt @ Jun. 20 2007,13:35)
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I don't think it will ever work in EA's air combat system.

Its almost Titan scale in size. It has three different sets of Autocannons and two sets of huge bomb racks.

I can't see how the thing would fit into Epic at all.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:55 am 
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Yes it looks like an early Narn Cruiser. Nothing there reminds me of chaos.
Very nice model, but a chaos craft? Never!

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firestorm40k
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:30 am 
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The first few times I saw it I was torn between thinking 'sweeeeeeeeet!!!' :D and 'whoah, that is fugly!' :devil:  

Now when I look at it, for some reason the Imperial March pops in to my head... :confuse:

If someone comes up with rules for it in E:A, I'll probably get it - it's not like I've got, oh, 200 Epic Chaos minis to paint up anyway... :p :D
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:56 am 
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Well a truescale Thunderhawk Gunship is quite large too, so I think it could fit in E:A.


At most, it'd be a DC-4 Bomber (All aircraft have artificially lowered DC values as compared to their size).

Perhaps even DC-3... If someone could dig out the hit points for a Thunderhawk in IA, we could do a quick compare and find its ideal DC.



It would have a lot of Ignore Cover BP's though! (Napalm bomber by the sound of it!)




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mageboltrat
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:35 am 
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This baby can take as much damage as a Manta, so probably going to be around DC6.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:51 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 21 2007,01:56)
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It would have a lot of Ignore Cover BP's though! (Napalm bomber by the sound of it!)

It has an option for one set of additional bombs that would asily be Ignore Cover but the rest of them sound like conventional munitions based on the AI stats they posted for it.

And I'm guessing that its about twice the size of a THawk... the Forge World version that is.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:54 pm 
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything about this vehicle that would rationalize Support Craft status.  Is there something in the background that says it would hover over a battlefield?

DC4 is nearly invulnerable for a flier.  It's simply not viable to counter it in a tourney situation, leaving only lucky shots as a way to take it out.  That means regardless of correct point values  it would introduce a high luck variable into the game.

It only works (barely) for the LC because it's primarily for assaults and if it survives it only has minimal firepower compared to its point cost.  Air assault is basically a one-shot, which reduces the chance of a lucky shot disrupting its primary role.  Low firepower compared to its point cost means that a lucky shot later in the game has proportionally less effect.

To make the Harbinger viable, stats/abilities/rules should be set up to minimize lucky die rolls effectively deciding a game.  With standard aircraft/WE rules the only way to do that is to reduce its firepower (and therefore, points) to the level where luck either way is not decisive.

Personally, I would tend towards setting it up with its own non-GT rules.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:58 pm 
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You could make it a support craft with a minimum movement (a line note would suffice).

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:01 pm 
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I don't think that this thing will appear on an epic battlefield. It is designed to level whole builingkomplexes, not attack ground troops.
What you are trying to accomplish would be effectively a single B17 or Lancaster flying an attackrun over Arnheim while british paratroopers are fighting the germans in WW2.

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orangesm
 Post subject: Chaos Harbinger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Or more like a single B-52 lighting up the Iraqi trench line during Desert Storm or bombing the crap out of a Taliban stronghold in the mountains of Afghanistan.  Wait that is the current use of the largest military bomber in active service (since the 1950s and will continue until past the 2050s) that was designed to level cities.

I think it would have a place on the Epic battlefield doing what the US uses the B-52 for - heavy close air support. However this leads to the issue of airpower dominating the Epic battlefield.  At the same time it is fulfilling a role similar to Artillery, but may be harder to elminate.

The introduction of the Harbringer into Epic leads back to the discussion of how Airpower - CAS should influence the Epic battlefield.

At the very least the Harbringer could be made into an orbital bombardment type attack that has its target designated before hand but possibly have a little more flexibility using a number of small templates that chain from the first.

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