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Vindicator
Nothing new 10%  10%  [ 3 ]
Upgrade FF by 1 to 3+ 19%  19%  [ 6 ]
Change weapon to Thunderer Cannon and give +1 EA 19%  19%  [ 6 ]
Something else, see below 52%  52%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 31

Vindicator
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:29 pm 
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How did they nearly destroy a Supa(?) Gargant with four shots?


Or was it a Supa Stompa...

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:01 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Jun. 09 2007,16:31)
QUOTE
I think Predators should be available as an upgrade in the same way as Vindicators.

I agree - though I'm happy to have them restricted to a few ground based varient list since few others like the idea.

Blood Angles - I thought they had a pred varient for the infantry (same thing as the pred incinerator for Salamanders)?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Yes they have Vindicators, Annihilators, Destructors, Baals and LandRaiders als 0-2 upgrade for Devastators and Tatcicals.

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Shadowsword
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:52 pm 
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@Evil&Chaos
It was a Supa Stompa! Not a Gargant (my mistake, now corrected in my post).
The Supa Stompa was left with one DC, but the Stompa formation (BTS) was broken, due getting in fire for three SM formations placing enought BMs (and didn't raily til the last game round).

I've also testet the attack bike with 2 Heavy bolters (as mouted infantry). Needing 5+ to hit won't allow them to do much damage nevertheless.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Well...but the Attack Bike doesn't mount two Heavy Bolters.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:06 pm 
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Aye, if the attack bike isn't good enough for its points, I'd give the player a minor points discount for using them, rather than making them unrepresentative of the background / model / 40k model/rules.

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Soren
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:11 am 
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(Shadowsword @ Jun. 10 2007,14:52)
QUOTE
@Evil&Chaos
It was a Supa Stompa! Not a Gargant (my mistake, now corrected in my post).
The Supa Stompa was left with one DC, but the Stompa formation (BTS) was broken, due getting in fire for three SM formations placing enought BMs (and didn't raily til the last game round).

I've also testet the attack bike with 2 Heavy bolters (as mouted infantry). Needing 5+ to hit won't allow them to do much damage nevertheless.

Some VERY lucky shots. Noermaly out of 4 come 2 hits which are glancing off reinforced armor or do 1 hit at the best way.  Not a represenative move for a vindi detachment.

Attack bikes are OK, but not as formation. Speeders are simply better and will stay it. Attack bikes add 1 BM for shooting if chosen to upgrade 1 bike and thats easily worth the drop from 4+ to 5+FF.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Why even both using Attack Bikes to lay a BM when you can just move within 15cm and use (assault weapons) to do the same thing instead?

Selecting an attack bike should give the formation a -10pts break.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:08 pm 
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You can't use Small Arms (i guess you mean this) to lay BMs. You must have a shooting attack but i doesn't matter if it is AP or AT only.
But Small Arms can be used for supressing.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:12 pm 
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Really? I thought Small Arms could lay BM's.

Why would it work for surpression and not for BM's? That's illogical.


EDIT:

I'd still give a points break for Attack Bikes, they're pretty lame.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:15 pm 
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From the Master FAQ:

Q: Can a unit without ranged weapons (something with only FF or even lacking that like an Ork Wildboy) be suppressed when a formation fires?
A: In order to be suppressed a unit must have a line of fire and be in range. This means that units within small arms range (15cm) may be suppressed (even though they cannot shoot), but the Wildboy could not be.

Q: Can units armed only with Small Arms that are within range of the enemy be chosen as unit to be suppressed by Blast Markers?
A: Yes.

1.9.4 Place Blast Marker
Q: A formation fires at a target but has no weapons that can affect the target? For instance a formation that only has AP weapons fires at a vehicle formation. Does the target still get a Blast Marker for taking fire?
A: Yes. A target formation always receives a BM for taking fire even if that fire cannot have any effect on the target formation.

Q: Can AP weapons target AVs just to get the BM? And the corollary; ?can AT weapons target infantry to get a BM?
A: Yes. Formations pick up a BM for coming under fire even if the weapons being used cannot harm the target.

Q: Can a formation with units armed only with weapons that are Small Arms fire at an enemy formation to place a Blask Marker on them ?
A: No. As the rules currently stand, units armed only with Small Arms cannot shoot and therefore can't place a BM on an enemy for causing them to 'come under fire'.

I think we should open a new thread about AttackBikes.




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Shadowsword
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 pm 
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@Evil & Chaos and soren

The vindicator fire against the stompas was lucky but the annihilators fire before only took out one stompa. The game is now one weak away perhaps the annihilators did one damage to the supa stompa and one to another normal stompas and the three vindicators (one lost even due to walker by riding throught the ruins) did only two damage (by three hit, one was saved).

@all
I've put in my used changes for the attack bikes in the new thread.
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