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Necron 4.2 - comments
Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:06 pm 
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I don't know, Hena.  I have played a number of games with the Necron and the Pylons have never played a major role in the conflict.  I understand every little aspect of an army matters, but there are other factors on the Necrons that could be nerfed that would bring the list into balance more efficiently (see earlier posts).

If you have examples from other games where the Pylons 'won it for you' I'd like to see them.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Yeah, the DE we changed because your point was valid.  The Executor can drop in anywhere AND is quite mobile.  The Pylons are much more vulnerable, however.  I know you disagree, but their inability to move once they hit the board makes them extraordinarily susceptible to conventional attacks and air attacks.  Two shots (you don't even need hits!) on a Pylon and it breaks.

As for not wanting to lose air power while combating them, what else are you going to use your planes for? :p  Seriously, in modern warfare the first targets are almost always the AA targets, followed by whatever (runways, powerplants, ammo depots, Baywatch filming sites).

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:48 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 26 2007,22:26)
QUOTE

(Evil and Chaos @ May 26 2007,22:20)
QUOTE
'Zombocom' is the Necron player in my gaming group.

zombocom, what is your "usual" 3000 point Necron list?

If I can get Pipboy to duplicate it with his army, I'll try and play test against it.  Thanks!

It varies a bit from game to game, and we like to play with no limits on war engines so I sometimes have too many (not that that seems to matter since the orb usually just sits there doing nothing).

It's something along the lines of...

3 x Phalanx + 1 Pariah +1 Immortal
4 x Monolith + 1 Obelisk
Pylon
Nightbringer C'tan
5 heavy destroyers + 1 destroyer lord
Tomb complex

Then either an Orb if we're not playing with warmachine limits or just more monoliths and phalanxes.

All teleporting or portalling except the orb.

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JOHNDRAGON
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:49 pm 
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Dear Necrontyr,
Thank you for your responses.My initial foray with the Necron list was with the first list,nowshrouded in the mists of time.This was a 4-player,Imperial Guard+Titan Legions vs Chaos+Necrons.Imperial firepower ruled the table[4x12feet].

As the list developed,the Necrons entered our campaign,which also used Vault/Epicomms lists for other armies.We played scenarios and tournament-scenario games;my selection of Necrontyr depended on the game in view.I also restricted my army to the figures I had[first off I used cardboard pieces to hoots of derision];and a desire to explore the full Necron Oob.When tournament-scenarios were played, my opponent always knew the Necrons were coming.

"You've been living in a dream world,Neo[crontyr]"if you only play power lists in a blind tournament scenario format;however you have more chance of winning!Each time I used a comprehensively chosen list,Eldar and Guard blew me away in the later turns.Teleporters fell victim to blast markers;I was beaten to the strategy roll,etc.

My original post intended 2 things:
A critique of Titan Legions and Guard Leman Russ/artillery;
A comment to the effect that the Necron list does not offer itself tocomprehensive selection:I would be so sad to celebrate my first win with a multi-Monolith/power army.

I'll include a list of [losing] Necrontyr shortly;now Ihave to paint soome Daemonettes and Predators and.......

JohnDragon

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:26 am 
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I would be so sad to celebrate my first win with a multi-Monolith/power army.


It's fairly obvious that the Necron armylist doesn't work unless you pack it to the gills with monoliths... at which point it wins every game...

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Monoliths are certainly a necessity (at least they were prior to the Warbarque). ?Although I am curious as to the Monolith's survivability now that the Obelisks have been nerfed. ?My one game with the 4.2 list had them dying left and right. ?

JohnDragon/Zombocom,

Both of you have had very different experiences with the Necrons, but I see a common thread. ?Zombocom, why don't you play with the 1/3 WE restriction? ?Without playing with it, I can easily see you powerhousing through your opponents. ?JohnDragon, it seems your lack of available models certainly contributed to your losses, not to mention many of your games being scenarios instead of tournament style play.

My list from the last game (in which I won over the IG 3-0) was as follows:

Phalanx, Necron Warriors 4
Tomb Spyders 2
Pariahs 2
Wraiths 1
Immortals 3
Venator, Flayed Ones 1
Eques, Destroyers 2
Heavy Destroyers 3
Necron Lord 2
Monolith 3
Obelisks 9
Warbarque 1
Supreme Commander 1
Harvester Engine 1
Aeonic Orb 1
Tomb Complex 1
War Engine Total 1100
Point Total 4000
Activations 11
Number of Units 55
Formations on board at start of Turn 1
Aeonic Orb
Both Destroyers
Warbarque

I'd like to see somebody play this list and lose. :)  For reasons I mentioned above, I believe the Destroyers and the Orb both highly contributed to a decisive victory.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Zombocom, why don't you play with the 1/3 WE restriction?


He breaks the 1/3rd restriction by around 50 points IIRC, and it isn't the orb that wins his games... it's the four teleporting monoliths that teleport on turn one all around a single formation, wipe it out, then they all break during the turn, and teleport around a new formation, wiping that one out too...

Zombocom (And I) reckon there's something funky with the way that phase out is actually a benefit for monoliths, rather than a drawback.

It's what makes the list so overpowered.

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tv1013
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:19 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 01 2007,15:22)
QUOTE

Zombocom (And I) reckon there's something funky with the way that phase out is actually a benefit for monoliths, rather than a drawback.

It's what makes the list so overpowered.

I've always thought that was kind of odd myself.

If "bouncing" Monoliths are truly such an over-powered tactic, why not tone them down a little bit, rules-wise?  

Something like "The Monolith rolls 2 dice instead of one for blast markers when teleporting", or "If phased out, the Monolith rolls 2 dice instead of one for blast markers when teleporting again."

I can't think of a single fluff-reason why this should happen, other than maybe phasing-out has used some of its enegry, but that effectively raises the risk of coming in with a blast marker to 1/3 chance.  

Heck, if you REALLY hate them, make them roll 3 dice, any roll of a 1 is a blast marker.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:53 pm 
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For the rest of the army, phasing out is a disadvantage (They don't get to regroup).

For Monoliths and their attendant Obelisks, it's a massive advantage, allowing them to reposition multiple flux-arc monoliths next to enemy formations, then an Engagement through a portal does the rest.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:32 pm 
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Who feels that there should be a Cap on the Gaze of Death Attack for the Nightbringer?


As to the Pylon:  If you look at their 40k stats, the current ones are almost a perfect match.

Sure, they are the sweeping arc of doom, that covers an entire battlefield.  But they are the ONLY air defense the Necron have.  And they get only one shot each with a 50% chance to hit.  Compare that to the disgusting abundance of AA the Eldar have.

remember, there is no such thing as a Necron fighter to offer cover, no Necron Bombers to deliver death from above.

IG can supress them with artillery strikes.

Marines can Teleport Terminators, or run Assault Marines in to kick the crap out of them.  

Orks can just absorb the fire and take them out.

Eldar have so many options for taking them out it's silly. :p

Anyone with a ship can use Pinpoint Lance strikes on them too (though that's a waste.)

And I've seen the Necrons loose.  Hell, I've shattered them myself.  The hardest thing is that you can't fight them like you fight orks, or Eldar, or Chaos.

Necron require a radical change in your tactical perceptions.

And I have yet to have an Aeonic Orb survive a battle. :p

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:33 pm 
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Corey, I believe you when you say that you've seen the Necrons lose.  But the mere fact that others are winning with them so often and so easily indicates something is amiss.  The changes you made with 4.2 are an excellent step in the right direction and IMO will go a long way to making the Monoliths less flexible (a good thing).  But it feels like the list needs more nerfs to be honest.

On the C'tan, I don't see how a CAP of 6+ attacks can hurt and it would make the list consistent.

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tv1013
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:09 pm 
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I'm also for the max +6 attacks for the Nightbringer, just to make things consistent and easy to remember.
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