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[NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:53 pm 
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(Hena @ May 29 2007,12:47)
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FF value doesn't enter into equation. It can have multiple other factors (speed, function etc) that have an effect in it as well. Stat line of the weapon is that matters.

Ah wait, I forgot that the Malefactor version of spine banks grants a ranged attack, doh.


Yeah, change Malefactor weapon name to 'Large Spine Banks' or somesuch. :)


Sorry Hena.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:11 pm 
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In genera, the problem army lists tend to be:  big bugs, fewer activations with proportionally larger swarms, lots of meat shield for every Synapse, and plenty of Mycetic Spores.

The activations start out a bit behind but they just never go away.  No army has enough firepower to pound through huge swarms.  A lost assault will make a big dent, but then the remains of the swarm can use the Withdrawal to make a tactical move and/or get out of 30cm for the spawn bonus.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Mycetic Spores.


I'd be happy to see these removed from the armylist.

I think they're one of the factors that make 'spawning' a little overpowered, and that it'll be easier to balance the spawning values of the other tyranids once they're gone.


On the fluff side, I thougt that Mycetic Spores were at their most prevailent in the early invasion stages, rather than this late stage armylist.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:19 pm 
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More playtest.  I'll post the pics later..
===========

The following is the report from the Ork game.

The Orks had the following units: 2 Big Warbands with 2 big gunz and 2 Oddboyz each, 1 Uge Warband with 3 big gunz and 3 Oddboyz, 2 Big Blitz Brigades with 2 Oddboyz each, 2 Stompa Mob with 1 Supa Stompa in each, 1 Gargant kitted with a Supa Zzap. So as you can tell the Orks had a lot of TK weapons.

We did not take corner deployment for this game. The Orks garrisoned the Uge warband and one of the Big Warbands.

Turn 1:

The Orks won the initiative and doubled the Gargant to get off the first shots hitting one of the Hierophants with 1 TK damage but that was about all the damage the Gargant could do. The first round was mostly a headlong charge by the Tyranids to close with the Orks. The Orks were able to kill one of the Hierophants on the first turn and both of the Hierodule shields on the Dominatrix and were feeling pretty good despite missing with several of the TK weapons. But they are looking forward to some sustained fire on turn 2. This would put a big dent in the Nid advance. The Nids respawned all their casualties but one Hierodule and of course the Hierophant that died. The Dominatrix meat shield was back but not as tough as before.

Turn 2:

The Lictors were able to deploy in such a way as to prevent most of the Orks from sustaining fire with the TK's, by using their scouting ZOC's. In fact they forced a total of 6 formations to either choose to assault them or move away (out of cover). They were not good targets themselves but wreaked havoc in the Ork battleplan and for so little effort.

The Orks won initiative and fired one of the Blitz Brigades and double moved one of the Warbands in order to get off the TK shots before they were assaulted and lost the opportunity. The shots nearly killed the Vituperator and killed the other Hierophant.  

The Lictors activated next and assaulted the Gargant with support from an armored group and did two points of damage to the Gargant. They assaulted in such a way as to have only two units that could take casualties so they forced an assault resolution with even modifiers. They won the assault breaking the Gargant before it activated which of course sucked cause the Orks didn't get to hear all the noise the Gargant would have made.

The Nid armored group assaulted one of the Stompa Mobs taking 3 Carnifex as casualties and killing 3 stompas. They won the assault breaking the Mob before it activated.

TIme for TK from the Ork again, the other Blitz Brigade was forced to double move out of the Lictor ZOC. He fired at the Dominatrix in another attempt to kill the meat shield and was successful at killing another Hierodule. The Orks retained and double moved another Warband to escape a Lictor ZOC firing at the Dominatrix but failed to kill her.

The balance of the turn is too painful to recount. Let me just say it involved a lot of Nid assaults and a feeding frenzy on Ork warbands, and a Blitz Brigade.

At the end of the turn the Nids spawned all their Hierodules back a good deal of other units as well. They regenerated all the remaining Synapse Creatures to full health. The Orks wished they could regenerate but maybe they will some day from Nid droppings.

The Gargant did fortunately rally.

Turn 3:

The Nids teleported in the Greater Synapse Node to guard their blitz.

Orks won the initiative again. Yeah!  

The remaining Blitz brigade double moved out of impending doom and raced to the Greater Synapse node fired and killed it. Waaagh! We retained and double moved a beleagured Stompa Mob out of a similar fate as the Blitz Brigade. They now captured the Nid Blitz.

Unfortunately, the Nids now assaulted the Gargant with a very large Tyranid warrior group and killed the Gargant without going to resolution. Then they assaulted and broke the last Warband.

Again, the remainder of the turn involved breathing on broken warbands and capturing all the objectives on the Ork side of the board.

Mercifully the game ended on turn 3 with a Tyranid 2 goal to 1 victory.

The Orks faired better than the IG but took 54% casualties, they gave the Nids 30%.

I have attached photos from turn 3 sorry we don't have any before this. Also you have my apologies that some are blurry. We will take better photos of the Eldar battle. They are number in order of events.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:51 pm 
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(nealhunt @ May 29 2007,15:19)
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The Lictors were able to deploy in such a way as to prevent most of the Orks from sustaining fire with the TK's, by using their scouting ZOC's. In fact they forced a total of 6 formations to either choose to assault them or move away (out of cover). They were not good targets themselves but wreaked havoc in the Ork battleplan and for so little effort.


Do you have pictures of this? ?I'm really struggling to grasp how this would work without the Lictors being extremely dispersed and vulnerable.

That the Lictors were so distuptive, yet the Ork player felt "they were not good targets" just boggles my mind. ?If the Lictors were surrounded by Orks, an assault should've wiped out at least one of the formations and left at least some of the other Ork formations able to sustain.

I just can't vizualize what's happening here.

The Lictors activated next and assaulted the Gargant with support from an armored group and did two points of damage to the Gargant. They assaulted in such a way as to have only two units that could take casualties so they forced an assault resolution with even modifiers. They won the assault breaking the Gargant before it activated which of course sucked cause the Orks didn't get to hear all the noise the Gargant would have made.


I'd love a pic of this as well, with all the Orks around, there was no support fire to take on the single Lictor?

At the end of the turn the Nids spawned all their Hierodules back a good deal of other units as well. They regenerated all the remaining Synapse Creatures to full health.

Okay, does the Tyranid player just constantly roll "5"s and "6"s on their dice?

If a Synapse creature is under half DC, there's no way for it to come back to full. ?Also sounds like they're maxing out their Spawning rolls every time.
The Gargant did fortunately rally.

I wish these reports were a little more detailed, and we had some snaps of the battlefield. ?Hope you can post the pictures soon Neal!




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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:58 pm 
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(nealhunt @ May 29 2007,15:19)
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Turn 1:

The Orks won the initiative and doubled the Gargant to get off the first shots hitting one of the Hierophants with 1 TK damage but that was about all the damage the Gargant could do.

What size table are you playing on?

How is this even possible on the "standard" table size?  Even if the Gargant and Hierophant are directly across from each other and right at the edges of their deployment zones they're still 90cm apart when they begin the turn... that's some pretty precise deployment!  *laugh*

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Hojyn
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Hmm, just a thought here : if big swarms really are that much of a problem (and I can well believe that they are), how about modifying the whole "synapse range" rule like this :

- All synapse groups are given a certain number of "brood points" and may control a maximum number of brood creatures based on these "brood points" (for example, an Assault Group would get 15 "brood points" to spend, meaning they could control up to 15 points worth of brood creatures - i.e. 15 Termagants OR 10 Raveners (2 points each) and 5 Termagants OR 3 Exocrines (5 points each), etc.)

- Then, either remove the "brood creatures must stay within 15 cm of synapse creatures" rule and apply normal coherency rules... or leave it as is if you want to further limit the zone of control of each formation.

This would obviously require lots of playtesting to get the numbers right, but it could possibly help balance the list by limiting the max size of each formation.

Just my two cents. ?:)
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:41 pm 
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(Hena @ May 30 2007,14:20)
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Btw, with regards to mycetic spores.

I originally wanted to make these a "drop pod" equivalent. Well without the deathwing pod attack. And only usable by Infantry swarms. This was shot down rather fast back then.

I still think that they should simply be removed from the list.

They feel like someone was just trying to crowbar as many options as possible into the list, and IMHO removing them would make it much easier to balance spawning.

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Dave
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:52 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 30 2007,09:41)
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I still think that they should simply be removed from the list.

They feel like someone was just trying to crowbar as many options as possible into the list, and IMHO removing them would make it much easier to balance spawning.

You're right, fluff wise they are Tyranid drop pods.  I guess you can kind of twist the way you look at the rules to say that they are being used to drop the Tyranids instead of "spawning" them.

However, I'd rather they just be generic drop pods as per the Space marines.  A formation upgrade that allows it to planetfall infantry and light vehicles.  Then again that would take a lot of the character out of Chroma's Phase III attack list if they were used to liberally.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:31 pm 
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My other alternative (I was thinking of this in my -hX lists) was to limit using Mycetic Spores only within 30cm. So that you could get +d3 for over 30cm or +d3 for spores, but not both.


Too arbitrary for my taste.

I really think they need to go from this list.

They should be in a seeding swarm list, not a phase III.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:00 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 30 2007,15:31)
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They should be in a seeding swarm list, not a phase III.

Phase III seems to be precisely the time when Tyranids do their equivalent of "planetfall".

Phase III: Attack

The Tyranid invasion is begun by the hiveships releasing spores into the target's planets atmosphere. The mix typically includes mycetic spores for landing 'vanguard' and 'main force' ground assault swarms, spore 'mines' of a corrosive, poisonous and/or explosive capability, zoomorphic symbiotes and parasites, plus fertilisation, weather modification and necrotic varieties. Flying creatures are also dispatched, primarily swarms of winged Gaunt species tended to by the dropship-sized Harridan brood organisms.

I believe the use of the term "mycetic spores" to represent a "spawn booster" was an unfortunate choice as players of previous additions already knew them as Tyranid "drop pods".

If we remove the "spawn booster", that means Tyranids in the thick of things will be getting, essentially, 3-4 Spawn points max, getting zero one third of the time; that seems rather sparse to me.

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