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[NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
Zzzap
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:23 am 
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(Chroma @ May 26 2007,22:07)
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Yes, "Unstoppable" removes a core mechanic, Blast markers, from the army.  That is tough to deal with, but it *can* be dealt with.  If we make Tyranids a relatively short range shooting, good close combat, poor firefight army without much speed, that breaks, but rallies well when swarms are big, but falters when they're reduced, well we've just created inferior Orks.

It doesn't seem like you read or considered the suggestion regarding "Unstoppable". The following points were not part of the suggestion:

1. Rallies when swarms are big, (Never suggested any result that was affected by the size of the unit.

2. Falters when they're reduced, (the suggestion to auto rally and remove all blast markers is far from this unless you are referring to units of smaller size being able to be broken)

3. It doesn't seem to me that sticking to the core rules forces anyone to create inferior Orks. (In fact, IMO, comparing the suggested altered Unstoppable rule from earlier today to Orks is not a just comparison. It sort of mocks the suggestion rather than giving it consideration.) In reality, it would be much closer to the Eldar Spirit Stones rule than Orks only way better since the rally would be automatic.

It would be interesting to me to know what tactics you or others are using successfully against Nids. Are players using army composition (customizing armies to specifically fight against Nids) or are there specific tactics? If so, enlighten us please.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:18 am 
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(Zzzap @ May 27 2007,04:23)
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(In fact, IMO, comparing the suggested altered Unstoppable rule from earlier today to Orks is not a just comparison. It sort of mocks the suggestion rather than giving it consideration.) In reality, it would be much closer to the Eldar Spirit Stones rule than Orks only way better since the rally would be automatic.


Sorry if you felt mocked, Zzzap, I was speaking in jest about "inferior orks" vs Tyranids.

It would be interesting to me to know what tactics you or others are using successfully against Nids. Are players using army composition (customizing armies to specifically fight against Nids) or are there specific tactics? If so, enlighten us please.

There are many battle reports listed here on the Tyranid forum, I recommend showing all messages "From the beginning" and taking a look from Jan 2007 forward for topics with [BatRep] or "Batrep", etc, in their titles.  A wide variety of armies fought, some wins, some losses, by a large variety of players.

Please take a look for interesting tactics.

The primary tactic around here is shoot/firefight already activated swarms until they are gone and then move on to another one; concentration of fire and good fire discipline tend to work well against Tyranids... never leave a lone Synapse creature alive if you can help it.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:02 pm 
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(Zzzap @ May 27 2007,04:23)
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It would be interesting to me to know what tactics you or others are using successfully against Nids. Are players using army composition (customizing armies to specifically fight against Nids) or are there specific tactics? If so, enlighten us please.

As an added note - you might also want to look for some of the [Red Queen] games, as they have a variety of Imperial forces fighting the Tyranids is different scenarios.

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Zzzap
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:20 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 27 2007,05:18)
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The primary tactic around here is shoot/firefight already activated swarms until they are gone and then move on to another one; concentration of fire and good fire discipline tend to work well against Tyranids... never leave a lone Synapse creature alive if you can help it.

Yes, we totally understand not leaving a Synapse Creature alone and using good fire discipline to try and eliminate it. (provided we have line of sight range etc. which doesn't always work out of course) However, in our game experience it is seldom possible to strip enough of the meat shield off of the formation to get to the Synapse. Perhaps the other Nid testers are building too many formations spreading out the broods too thinly. By looking at some of the Bat Reps that would seem to be the case. Or perhaps the Nid army doesn't scale up to 4,000 to 5,000 points as well as other armies.

I will keep looking at other playtest games to see if there is a pattern.

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Zzzap
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:31 pm 
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(Hena @ May 26 2007,21:52)
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Even with Tyranids? I tend to have questionable luck in prepping my targets nowdays. As the one that I have used for it (dactylises) are getting wiped rather fast. Tyranids have no cheap 'give BM to target' formations available that is with other lists.

Yep, even with Tyranids. Even a failed assault will put a BM on every formation that supported it and thus "prep" the supporting formation.

Also, for example, a Fire Fightey Nid formation with a single shot can prep a target formation by moving up to within 15cm of a formation shooting at it and placing a BM. (and that just sounds funny when you think about it) Now that same formation is there for another Nid formation to make an assault and enjoy their support.

I have experienced this over and over again and it is quite a successful tactic for the Nids or any other army for that matter.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:37 pm 
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(Zzzap @ May 27 2007,16:20)
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Perhaps the other Nid testers are building too many formations spreading out the broods too thinly. By looking at some of the Bat Reps that would seem to be the case. Or perhaps the Nid army doesn't scale up to 4,000 to 5,000 points as well as other armies.

Hey Zzzap!

What would the "typical" Tyranid army in your gaming group look like at 3000, 4000, and 5000 points?

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Zzzap
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:43 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 26 2007,21:56)
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[First off, you would *not* do this... If you can help it, *NEVER* get in base contact with a Bio-Titan!  *laugh*

No, I would never choose to be in base contact with Ogryns either. However, the choice is not always mine. Frequently, Ogryns are in base because they are at the front of the formation and usually the first to be based in an assault.

The premise of this discussion might be the problem. I think others might be thinking about the IG initiating the assault but I wasn't. Very seldom does an opportunity occur where a IG co. would leave cover, assuming they had it, to jump out and assault a Bio-titan even if they had a slim chance of defeating it. It would leave them very exposed to another assault which is inevitably coming.

My response was based more on a perception that an IG co. should be expected to wipe out a Hierophant in an assault. In my game experience the assaults are usually coming at the discretion of the Nid player not the IG due to the much faster speed of the Hierophant. Under these circumstances usually some portion of the IG co. is in base and it doesn't end well for them.

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Zzzap
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:46 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 27 2007,16:37)
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What would the "typical" Tyranid army in your gaming group look like at 3000, 4000, and 5000 points?

Let me get back to you on this. I will round up some lists for you.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:59 am 
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(Zzzap @ May 27 2007,16:46)
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Let me get back to you on this. I will round up some lists for you.

Cool!

Looking forward to reading them.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:02 pm 
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'Bio-Plasma Attack'


Bio-Plasma is a close-combat attack for a Carnifex.

Spine Banks are a (short) range ranged attack for a Carnifex, which can come from a carnifex that is otherwise kitted out for close combat.


In other words, 'Spine Banks' is the perfect name for the FF attack of our Carnifex model.


So the Malefactor could get a name-change on its own weapon, to stop confusion?

Then again they're just FF attacks rather than ranged weapons, so the weapon name could stay the same.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:22 pm 
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Since it's a (Small Arms) equivilent attack, it doesn't actually have to be named at all.

I think the original convention was not to give vehicle-class units a named FF attack at all, unless it was an Extra Attack, or something special like a Multi-Melta.

Also, the Ork is is full of (Shootas) with different FF values.


So I think leaving it as Spine Banks is fine. It's readily identifiable by new players.




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