Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 5 of 10
  [ 146 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 10  Next

[NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:49 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Those weren't my games and I wasn't there to watch.  Ditto for the comments/suggestions right before that.  I only saw the last half of the one game which was cut short.

The details in the description are sketchy.  I haven't spoken to them either, so I'm not any more informed than you guys at this point.

There are several details that don't make sense to me.  I agree it looks like there was some odd luck and odd choices of targetting.  They are experienced players and usually grasp alternate strategies quickly, so I tend to think that there was reason for the choices that didn't come through in the description.

I'll discuss it with them and give more details when I can.

I am assuming they played with 7.4, since we had an email exchange about it after I sent them the pdf.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:52 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

(Hena @ May 24 2007,19:02)
QUOTE
delron wrote
WE 0cm DC6 4+RA CC6+ FF6+ synapse (4)
Critique: le nodule est d?truit.
Le nodule synaptique co?te 100 points et remplace un objectif tyranide. Il est limit? ? 0-1 et si il est d?truit, il est laiss? en jeu en tant que simple objectif.


Any one to translate?

I assume you can read the top line okay.

Critical:  The node is destroyed.
The synapse node costs 100 points and replaces one Tyranid objective.  It is limited to 0-1.  If it is destroyed it is replaced with a plain objective.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(nealhunt @ May 24 2007,21:52)
QUOTE
I assume you can read the top line okay.

Critical: ?The node is destroyed.
The synapse node costs 100 points and replaces one Tyranid objective. ?It is limited to 0-1. ?If it is destroyed it is replaced with a plain objective.

I'm curious as to what "Synapse (4)" refers to... +4 spawning?  That seems a bit much!

As well, with it being a 0cm move Synapse unit, it could garrison with *any* Brood units, WE or not.  I believe that's something we're trying to avoid, e.g., Nodes not able to garrison.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:10 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
That's a good question.  No clue.

4 spawn points is the same average as 1d3+2 or 2d3.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(nealhunt @ May 24 2007,22:10)
QUOTE
That's a good question. ?No clue.

4 spawn points is the same average as 1d3+2 or 2d3.

Yeah, but it's "fixed", so you know you're always getting at least 4... and a minimum of 6 with spores and distance.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dobbsy
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:17 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ok lemme get this straight with regards to Full DC towards BTS...

Let's assume the only synapse you have is a Dom (6DC)

Hena's suggestion means (that at half DC you have to do 3 DC to the Dom to gain the BTS?  Or is it that killing her outright gains you only half synapse?

Chroma's suggestion means you have to do 6 DC - thereby killing it outright - to get the BTS?

Am I correct here?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Dobbsy @ May 25 2007,01:17)
QUOTE
Let's assume the only synapse you have is a Dom (6DC)

Hena's suggestion means (that at half DC you have to do 3 DC to the Dom to gain the BTS?

Chroma's suggestion means you have to do 6 DC - thereby killing it outright - to get the BTS?

Ah, no.

With "single unit", the Dom is worth 1 "Synapse point"; killing her is the same value towards BTS as killing a single Tyranid Warrior.

With "half DC", the Dom would be worth 3 "Synapse points"; killing her would count as killing three Synapse creatures for determining the number of Synapse creatures killed for BTS.

With "full DC", killing the Dom would be worth 6 "Synapse points".

Damage to WE Synapse means nothing; only kills.

An example army, and their BTS values:

Dominatrix
Harridan
1 Nexus (1 Tyrant, 2 Warriors)
2 Assault (3 Warriors)
2 Lesser Nodes

"Single Unit": 13 Synapse points, BTS - kill 7.

"Half DC": 16 Synapse points, BTS - kill 8.

"Full DC": 20 Synapse points, BTS - kill 10.




_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dobbsy
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:03 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oh, ok thanks Chroma. Of course opposition players may not like the "full DC" option because it makes it harder to get BTS, while Nid players would prefer to use Full DC for the same reason...

Err, I'm confused, Hena. Why would you NOT want the "Full DC" option as a nid player? Are you misunderstanding the proposal? What have I missed in your argument?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Hojyn
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:14 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France

(Hena @ May 25 2007,04:48)
QUOTE

(Chroma @ May 24 2007,23:58)
QUOTE
I'm curious as to what "Synapse (4)" refers to... +4 spawning? ?That seems a bit much!

Yes, it's +4 spawning.

Like Hena said, Delron (who proposed this alternative Node profile) has been revamping the Tyranid list.

Among his modifications, he's given "fixed" spawning values to synapse creatures (+1, +2... up to +6 for the Dominatrix) and changed the brood values of most brood creatures accordingly.

Also, Delron is not the leader of the "French ERC", just a member: there's actually no leader since one of the main gripes of the players who created the French ERC was the role of the "army champion", they wanted a more "democratic" process. Their other objective is to make revisions happen faster. I'm not sure faster means better, and I've said as much, but hey...

Personally, I'm not really keen on this French ERC thing, because I think it'll just divide the already small Epic community. The way it's going, we'll soon end up with two different set of rules and different armyl lists as well... ????

Well, back on topic: I like Hena's idea of reducing the "+D3 to spawning if no enemy within 30cm" to a mere +1. But I would go no further in reducing the Tyranids' spawning capacity.

BTS: I like the "full DC" option, I think it makes more sense and it doesn't strike me as unbalanced at all.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:21 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
One of the guys popped in and read some comments.  I still haven't had a chance to talk to him, just a short email.

The Shadowsords failed to hurt the Dom because they couldn't blow the Heirodules off it faster than they respawned.  There are 3 Dules, so even with 3 hits and 3 points of damage on each, you can't get rid of them in a single volley.  With most volleys, a Shadowsword company can't kill but 1.  Average total damage is 5 and some of it will be wasted due to overkill when the damage dice don't work out right.  Killing 2 is a good roll.  The Dom with Spore has a 2/3 chance to spawn a new one.  At that rate, it would take a SHT company 3-4 turns to have a chance to damage the dom, even with good rolls.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids 7.4
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:49 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
I know there is great resistance to changing Unstoppable.  I agree it is a major defining feature of the list.  However, this comes up over and over as a major hurdle to balancing the list.

Yesterday on the SG boards someone posted the idea of using the "Disposable" concept for broods and giving the Synapse Leader ability.  That would keep the number of BMs low, but would still allow normal mechanics.

Personally, I didn't think that is anywhere nearly enough to be a valid replacement for Unstoppable.

Someone else made a different suggestion to me - Nids automatically rally in the End Phase.  I also didn't think that was enough.  But...

All that together would allow the Nids to stick with the normal BM mechanics, but also make them highly resistant to BMs and virtually guaranteed to come roaring back every single turn.  During the turn, though, the opponent would actually have some non-assault-based options for driving them back, whereas there's really nothing right now.

Most of the time, swarms would have no more than 1-3 BMs on them until the Synapse(s) started taking damage - easily removed in the end phase.  It would, however, hinder activation, reduce the near-auto +2 assault resolution, and allow the formations to break and suffer hackdowns normally.

There would need to be a few adjustments, obviously.  The first thing that springs to mind is the multi-Synapse groups would be more effective proportional to the others.  Independent broods would be markedly less effective.  That could be worked out.

So maybe something like...

*Broods (common and uncommon) do not generate BMs
*All Synapse Creatures count as leaders
*Nids rally automatically in the end phase
*Nids automatically pass a Marshall action
*Biotitans gain Leader
*Broodlord gains Leader

===

In fact, since people seem to think the Warriors are usually the best choice, maybe they could go without Leader.  They are in all the multi-synapse groups, so that would also keep the balance between multi- and single- synapse groups.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 5 of 10
  [ 146 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 10  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net