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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
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Thanks for the input Neal!
(nealhunt @ May 23 2007,14:35)
QUOTE Dominatrix - If the symbiote is killed on a critical the unit should also lose synapse ability. Without the part of the WE that gives it Supreme Commander ability it shouldn't still have synapse. After all, this is a 6 followed by a 6. That is a pretty bad crit.
Yeah, a "6-6" should be a bad crit, but losing "synapse" does some weird things: is the Dom now considered an independent and not counted for BTS or double value for tie-breakers?
I've been considering a "psychic explosion" effect that could harm the Dom greatly without the loss of abilities. I don't believe there's any other crit that removes abilities, except, perhaps, the Eldar Titans'. I'll keep thinking about this one.
EDIT - what about "Loses supreme commander and all Broods under her control immediately go to ground." Is that nasty enough?
Nodes - This could still be a problem and needs playtesting. Being able to drop a unit that cannot be broken to contest a blitz objective on the third turn is probably too tough. It also means that a Tyranid player can ignore any defense of its blitz, freeing its entire army to race across the board.
I've never had a problem using or facing Nodes, but I've never done a "mega-node" army to push them to the limit.
Since Nodes spend the whole turn "naked" they seem extremely vulnerable to me. If you don't arrive in cover, which has its own risks, you're out in the open to get hammered by enemy fire. If you've got a high investment in Nodes, you're going to have less activations on the table. The enemy can attempt to surround your (or their own) objectives with zones of control. There seems to me to be a lot of counters and downsides to the "Node rush" scenario.
Has anyone actually seen it in play?
Lictors - The size limits of Lictor formations are too large. Unbreakable, units of 5 or 6 around objectives on turn 3 make it too difficult on opponent to battle over theses. It skews hard fought games on turn 3.
Wow, that is so odd, as massed Lictors have come to be seen as the biggest waste of 600 points in the Tyranid army around here! *laugh*
If the Lictors can go first, yes, they can inflict some serious hurt on the enemy, but is so rarely seems to happen and they just die to the "6cm firefight". They aren't fearless so combat resolution just seems to decimate them.
The Lictors were blamed as a significant factor because they simply hammered formations with their ZoC. Part of that was undoubtedly the setup (5K on 6' board with IG means cramped formations). However, that wasn't the only game and the comment was that they felt similarly abusive in other situations as well. They even made the comment that they thought the previous version with more attacks but fewer models was better in certain ways.
In the older lists, they were 0-2 Lictor swarms of 2-5 models, are you really saying that the bump to 3-6 is that significant? I really didn't like the cheaper, and effective, 100 point Lictor pair showing up as a "spoiler".
Neal, can you explain how the Lictors were "hammer"ing other formations with their zones of control? Why wouldn't the harassed formation just engage them? The Lictors have to arrive more than 5cm away from the enemy when they show up, so there's no way for them to counter-charge into base with the enemy, so the enemy can just firefight them away. What was actually happening here that caused such problems?
As a caveat, I would say that Imperial Guard, with the Strategy Rating 2 is the army most susceptible to Lictor attacks, but in all my Tyranid playing, it's been rare for Lictors to get their points back in play.
Flame Templates - There are too many flame tempalte MW weapons in the army. The flame template MW is roughly equal (in terms of number of units hit) to 2 Soopaguns. yes, they have shorter range but are way too cheap.
Hmmm? there are only three flame template toting models in the army, all on Titan-class heavies: Dominatrix, Hydraphant, and Vituperator, how is that too many?
The attacks, can, at best, hit on a 5+ while moving into range (one would probably engage if close enough to sustain fire). As for the opportunity for maximizing hits, I'd say 2 Soopaguns has way more potential for damage! The barrage template is of greater diameter than the "round end" of the flamer, and the secondary template from a 4BP MW barrage can be placed anywhere around the first template to do more damage. With the flamer template, the Tyranid player has to do a lot more manoeuvring to hit large numbers of targets.
Another weapon occasionally substituted for flame template MW is Acid Spray ignore cover. IMO these weapons so nullify and opponent that uses cover as to make the game not much fun. it would be more fun for an opponent to feel like he has a chance if he can just hold on in his cover long enough.
Er? this: Acid Spray, 15cm, 2xAP3+/AT6+, Ignore Cover, Forward Arc on a single unit (Scythed Hierodule) is that much of a spoiler?!
As well, the Bio-plasma Breath does *NOT* have Ignore Cover.
Are you sure the latest Tyranid list is being used?
Raveners - the Raveners have been reduced too far IMO. They cost 30 points, have a 5+ armor, CC3+, FF6+ and they get no extra attacks. By comparison a Nob costs 35 points, has a 4+ armor, CC3+, FF5+, gets an extra attack in CC, 2 shots at range, and is a leader.
Wow again, even with their current stats, I'd take all Raveners instead of other Common Broods if I had the models!
To make them even better, what's the point of taking any 'Gaunts at all from a purely power gaming perspective? You've got twice the survivability, getter CC, same FF for just twice the cost
I have never seen Raveners as weak; I still think they are extremely good!
I watched the end of one of the games and I agree it was brutal. 5K, Nid v IG. The IG chose almost freely from the Steel Legion and Siege IG lists to put together the list and was all the Siege horde/line/arty stuff backed by the really shooty bits from the SL list like Shadowswords and a Russ Company. The Nids was a big-bug or Godzilla style army. The Nids gutted them in the second turn.
I'd really like to see the army lists used, though I find combining Steel Legion and Siegemasters together to be odd. Were fortifications used? What Strategy Rating did the Imperial army have? Did so many formations on a smaller than usual table for the points cause a lot of intermingling?
I've found the "Godzilla" armies wither when faced with massive firefighting ability, which is what a Guard army should be bringing to the table. I would *love* to see a battle report of this, or a similar fight.
Lastly, 5000 points is the upper range of the list, and I don't think it's seen much playtesting at all.
Thanks again for the input Neal!
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