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Shining Spears
Pulsar
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:12 pm 
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I was just woundering if there is any ideas on updating them to come into line with the new 40K rules, now i not saying we should make Epic compare directly to 40K, but the new rules for them are that the Laser Lance has a 6 inch strength 6 shooting attack with the 40K lance special rule(it makes all vehicle armour above 12 count as 12) and gives them strength 6 power weapons in close combat.

which is in comparison to the old rules the Laser lance gave them a strength 5 shooting attack as they charged into combat and made them strength 5 in combat.

so there is a major difference in the new and old rules.

these are the rules for the now:
SHINING SPEARS
Type /Speed /Armour /Close Combat /Firefight
Infantry /35cm /4+ /4+ /5+
Weapon /Range /Firepower /Notes
Power Lances /(Base Contact) /Assault Weapons /Lance
Notes: Skimmer, Mounted -

so they should get the Epic lance rule in FF and a MW attack in CC if you were to do a direct rule change but i think that would make them very powerful :) , so maybe have the Epic lance rule for them in all stats and either an extra attack in CC or CC +3?

ideas and coments welcome.




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Soren
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:32 pm 
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If we so an update work after each 40k-codex change we will never get some serious lists finished. EA is not 40k. If it works in 40k it has not to work in EA. And if it is not broken in EA, don?t fix it.

Soren

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:34 pm 
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I think they are good.  The strength is only boosted by 1.  The "counts armor as 12" ability is definitely not MW status as it doesn't do anything regarding moderate armor levels, and has been represented on all the other units in the army as Lance.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:36 pm 
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well seeing as Eldar are only on verson 1.8 there is still time.

and if you can update the rules why not the lists :confuse: ?

but ok if you don't think they need to be tweeked thats cool :)




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:24 am 
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I think at most they could be bumped to CC3+, because they have become significantly more powerful in the latest edition of 40k.


Would CC3+ be too powerful?

I hardly ever see Shining Spears taken right now.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:35 am 
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I don't think 6 inches is enough to get a FF mod - FF after all focuses around decent small arms.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:38 am 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 26 2007,11:35)
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I don't think 6 inches is enough to get a FF mod - FF after all focuses around decent small arms.

I agree. Once you're at 6" in 40k, you're practically in CC, so in Epic, and such short-range attacks would be considered part of the CC value*.


* For example, the Elysian Drop Troops have 6" range demolitions charges, which are considered as +1 CC rating in Epic.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:41 pm 
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Spears are fine as is. I see them frequently in tournament lists and I usually employe them myself to hold the autarch (SC on the board turn one is SO useful :) ).

As to the review being 1.8 it took a long time and much discussion to get there and has been sent to SG as complete. I think the other lists need similar attention before Beil-Tan get reworked again.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:50 pm 
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Really? Bit of a shame, that review has a fair number of holes in and requires people to rejig their armies!

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:31 pm 
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A re org of eldar tanks was always on the cards as soon as it became apparent that the formations of 3 were hard to employ effectively.

I know at least one eldar player that thinks the SOV is a step to far!

1.8 was sent to the ERC in Sep last year after around 3 months of edit and discussion. I know MC23 had reservations but I think he and Sotec managed to work through most of them.
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:45 pm 
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1.8 was sent to the ERC in Sep last year after around 3 months of edit and discussion.


AFAIK, both Greg and I still have reservations regarding the v1.8.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:02 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Apr. 26 2007,13:45)
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AFAIK, both Greg and I still have reservations regarding the v1.8.

Could you expound on these reservations, Neal?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:08 pm 
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In very broad strokes, I feel the changes are too sweeping.  I think balance can be achieved with far more conservative changes.  It's essentially a whole new list and in that regard I think radical overhauls, as opposed to minor stat and point tweaks, run a serious risk of alienating the player base.

I'd like to stick closer to the original concept of army lists being static and reserving different force org for entirely new and separate army lists.  People who have spent the time and money collecting and painting a force deserve a certain amount of assurance that their army won't be invalidated because army list changes suddenly mean their minis aren't configured for optimal use.

I'll let Greg make his own comments.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Shining Spears
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:16 pm 
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I email Sotec about this topic and he said "I would dearly love to upgrade the shining spears the forum in general (talking about the SG forum) would probably lynch me if I tried to upset the balence again. The problem with the eldar is that all the Aspect warriors are balenced against the same points cost, even though their abilities vary wildly. "

he said that he would keep the comments and suggest them at the next eldar rules review, which i, from his tone, assume won't happen soon :( .




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