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Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:00 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 15 2007,02:47)
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I think showing what they do in 40k is entirely irrelevan to the question and missing the point.

Assume in epic they are fired at ground level by arty or float with the swarms and are part of the assault value. We are disscussing clouds of spores, not fog banks. Such a device is either high up or low down. I can't see how they could be both.

In 40k, you choose at the begining of the game whether they will fly high or low, and you can not change their flying height during the game.

If they're flying high, they engage aircraft, if flying low, they engage infantry.

Over a longer period (An Epic game), they could potentially 'pop up' and 'pop down' using the Skimmer rules.

Note: May only make AA attacks if they are 'popped up'.



There you go, LOS problems solved without need to recourse to Support Craft

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maruma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:25 pm 
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I feel using Supprt Craft rules(with some modifications) for AA spore mines is fine.
If there is a good rule in other army, we can avoid to invent wheel again.
But I don't think they need 'pop up' and 'pop down' rules.
Support craft seems always pop up, and always fight with FF if engaged. No problem.

Also I'm against MW attack for spores.
Battle cannons, las cannons, and even "big spores" of Dactylis are not macro weapons.
Only truely strong weapons should be MW in epic.

AA spores should be cheap and specialized, not almighty balloon bombs.
Well...FF 5+ or 6+ is good?
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:30 pm 
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If not Macro, then I'd certainly go with a decent CC value (3+ for example). They're very nasty in such situations.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:56 pm 
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Yes. CC with something which explodes in your face if you touch it should be nasty :D

And with SupportCraft they can always shoose to CC or FF like Skimmers.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:03 pm 
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Spore Mine issues aside, I don't really think Support Craft should be allowed to choose CC/FF.  They should always be FF.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Hi Guys

Coming into this thread rather late in the day I know but I am trying to get a grip on what the current proposal for the Spore Clouds actually is,

Reading through all the comments it appears that we are looking at the following......

Meiotic Spore Cloud
Type/ Move/ ?Save / CC / FF
LV ? ?/ 5cm / 4+ ? ?/ 4+ / 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Spore explosion/ 15cm / AA6+/ MW
and ? / base contact ?/ assault weapon / MW

Notes: Support Craft, May not contest objectives.

Cost: 150 for a formation of 6. Independant



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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Lightbringer: I think that's pretty much dead on.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:54 pm 
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Thanks E&C - I have two battles coming up this weekend and if my opponents agree I will use these latest suggested stats.

So just so I am totally clear, the latest WIP zoanthrope looks like this....

Zoanthrope
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
LV 15cm 5+ 6+ 5+
Weapons / Range / Firepower / Notes
Warp Blast / 30cm  /AP4+
And           / (15cm)/ small arms / MW
Notes: Walker, Brood (3)

and for now - gargoyles are as they were.

Correct?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:57 pm 
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(Lightbringer @ Apr. 17 2007,14:54)
QUOTE
So just so I am totally clear, the latest WIP zoanthrope looks like this....

Zoanthrope
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
LV 15cm 5+ 6+ 5+
Weapons / Range / Firepower / Notes
Warp Blast / 30cm ?/AP4+
And ? ? ? ? ? / (15cm)/ small arms / MW
Notes: Walker, Brood (3)

I believe they also have reinforced armour or they're really not worth it.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Aye, refinforced armour was agreed wasn't it.


EDIT: Thought we were talking about Spore Mines still.


For Zoanthropes my personal preference would be 4+ armour save with an Invulnerable Save too.


Note that in 40k their save is 2+ or a 6+ invulnerable save, almost Terminator-levels of protection.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:12 pm 
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At this point I think we need some playtesting to further discussion.  I think it's been talked to death.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Agreed.

Will try and get in a game today. :D

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Neal, I plan to do some testing this weekend but having missed quite a lot of this thread I was just trying to get my head around what it was that I should be testing :O

So E&C, if you are going to test the following, so shall I.....

Zoanthrope
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
LV 15cm 4+ 6+ 5+
Weapons / Range / Firepower / Notes
Warp Blast / 30cm  /AP4+
And           / (15cm)/ small arms / MW
Notes: Walker, Invulnerable Save, Brood (3)

Meiotic Spore Cloud
Type/ Move/  Save / CC / FF
LV    / 5cm / 4+    / 4+ / 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Spore explosion/ 15cm / AA6+/ MW
and   / base contact  / assault weapon / MW
Notes: Support Craft, May not contest objectives.
Cost: 150 for a formation of 6. Independant

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Chroma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:11 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 17 2007,15:04)
QUOTE
Note that in 40k their save is 2+ or a 6+ invulnerable save, almost Terminator-levels of protection.

Hence "5+, reinforced armour", since there are fewer "wounds" with a single LV Zoanthrope, than 5 INF Terminators.

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