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Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:30 am 
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I don't think they are nearly as problematic as you are portraying, Hena.  The stats E&C proposed are actually rather elegant in that regard.


I agree, they mesh with the current rules *very* well, with only a single 'note' required*, rather than the DTT-type invulnerable, immovable spore fields.



*Note: Cannot claim cover saves.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:56 am 
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(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,10:34)
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I disagree that the DTT is any different that say Barans stuff, they mesh in just fine. Also I think that the DTT version feels very much better than the movable unit thing.

DTT/Invulnerable Spore Fields may well mesh in fine, but they add quite a few more special rules / unique situations to a list that already has quite enough of both.

My brother's proposal really is a far more elegant solution.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:41 am 
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(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,11:36)
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But I unfortunately disagree on the whole unit based rules for the Meiotic Spores (even if my original proposal was just that). So I just see it as needed rules.

Then see it as an abstraction if you like, each mine representing one-sixth of the spore field... which is destroyable through causing a chain-reaction due to hostile fire.


Alternatively, don't see them as an abstraction, see them as literally six Spore Mines (Just as a Land Raider Crusader is literally one Land Raider, or one base of Tactical Marines is literally five marines), and view the rules in that manner. Ie: Their AA 'weapon name' in that case would be 'Acid Spore Mines' (That's the name for the 'normal size' spore mines that Meotic Spores release in order to destroy their enemies).

Both interpretations are available, and both seem to work by my eye, both in game mechanics and in meshing with the background of the Tyranid race.




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:01 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 13 2007,11:36)
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I thinking that they won't survive in a battle to stop planes as anything can shoot them down (Support Craft + LV).

It is possible, although people may be less likely to shoot at them than you are thinking.  Having a hive of tyranids stampeding across the battlefield at your lines would certainly make me pause before I decided to take a pop-shot at a spore cloud.

It would at the very least make for some interesting decisions on behalf of your opponent. :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Aye that's the thing... does he shoot the Meotic Spores floating above the Tyranids, which *potentially* threaten his aircraft, or does he shoot the seething tide of onrushing claws. :D

Plus, if they're cheap enough you might be looking at having 2/3 Meotic Spore Clouds in a game.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:10 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 13 2007,16:36)
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I got a reply to my email

Aye, Warwick replies to every email he gets as long as it's sensible, he's a top dude.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:44 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 13 2007,20:54)
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Cost: 150 for 6 formation of 6. Uncommon brood.

Uncommon Brood seems unlikely, as everything in the "Broods" sections relate to spawning.  

The Spore Clouds, actual models as opposed to markers for the Mycetic Spores, are far more likely to be Independent Swarms; they aren't assigned to Synapse Groups, aren't spawnable, and do their own thing.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:41 pm 
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I prefer the LV option over the DTT version, though right now, I'm also concerned about the overall feel of the army.

Both these current spore mine ideas favour nid artillery armies, because you can actually defend those (unlike the rest of the army which has no protection from airstrikes if it actually attacks!). Well protected strong artillery forces is not what the bugs should be about IMO, and yet that's what all these spore mine ideas favour in their current form. Dactylis are probably one of the most deadly artillery pieces in the game already - able to be min-maxed in formation size, able to be spawned, cannot be supressed or broken. Now we practically have 'dactylis specific' air cover to make them even stronger.  

I guess it's not so much of a problem if AA gargoyles are also available. If you want lots of artillery you take spores, if not you take gargoyles. Nonetheless I feel a little uncomfortable about the current direction on this issue.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:02 am 
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(Hena @ Apr. 13 2007,20:54)
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Ok if we go this route then I'll toss my suggestion as well.

Meiotic Spore Cloud
Type/ Save/ CC/ FF
LV/ 4+/ 4+/ 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Spore explosion/ 15cm/ AA6+/ Macroweapon
Notes: Support Craft

Cost: 150 for 6 formation of 6. Uncommon brood.

Save due to Warwick comment that they should be hard to hit. Also MW to make their attack effective and cost 150 to balance the upgrades.

AA attack MW-status?

S5, even with 2DC penetration... does it deserve MW-status (Vs aircraft?)

If the AA attack is MW status, the CC attack should probably be so too.


Uncommon brood as they should be in that category (and Mycetic spores are already there).


Why should they be in that category?

They're not a brood (They're mindless) and they float around independently of the main swarm.

I'd make them Independent, rather than Uncommon.

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