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Rules for Vampire Hunter.
Pulsar
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:35 am 
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here's my idea:

Eldar Vampire Hunter

Bomber/5+ /6+ /4+

2 Pulsars ? ? ? ?? ?60cm ? ? ? MW4+? ? ? ? ? Pulse,Fixed forward arc
Eldar missile Launchers ? ? 45cm ?AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ ?Fixed forward arc
Scatter Laser ? ? ? ? ? ? ?30cm ? ? ? ? ? ? AP5+/AT5+/AA5+ ?Fixed forward arc

DC 2, Planetfall, reinforced armour

Critical Hit Effect: The Vampire?s control surfaces have been damaged and it is destroyed.

i'm not sure about the points value but i was thinking ?325/350/375?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:54 am 
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Could you post the stats of the transport version of the Vampire for comparison purposes?

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:16 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 06 2007,11:54)
QUOTE
Could you post the stats of the transport version of the Vampire for comparison purposes?

sure :)

Vampire Raider

Bomber 5+/ 6+/ 4+

2 Vampire pulse laser   45cm   AT4+  pulse, Fixed forward arc
Scatter laser 30cm          AP5+/AT5+/AA5+ Fixed forward arc

DC 2, planetfall ,  reinforced armour, may transport eight of the
following units: Autarch, Farseer, Guardian, Striking
Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers, Heavy Weapon Platform, Support
Weapon Platform, Wraithguard, Rangers.


Critical Hit Effect: The Vampire?s control surfaces have been damaged and it is destroyed.

and it's 200 points

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:47 pm 
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Well, looking around, I find that the AX-1-0 clocks in at 225 pts.

So as a starting point, I'd probably look at making the Vampire Hunter 275pts (Maybe 300).








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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Hahaha :) Do a search for the vampure hunter in the saim haine list. Then check out the effects of weapon ranges on aircraft and ground flak. Then the AX-10 disscussions.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:05 pm 
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had not seen this before thanks Chris! :)


Vampire Hunter
Type /Speed /Armour /Close Combat /Firefight
War Engine /Bomber/ 5+  / - /  -
Weapon /Range /Firepower / Notes
Twin Vampire Hunter Pulsar /30cm/ MW2+/ Pulse, Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Eldar Missile Launcher /45cm/ AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ -
Scatter Laser/ 30cm /AP5+/AT5+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc

Notes: Damage Capacity 2. Reinforced Armour.

Critical Hit Effect: The Vampire Hunters control surfaces have been damaged and it is destroyed.

2 for 500 points

but is this what people think should be in the main list?




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Pulsar
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:11 pm 
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i think the range of the Twin Vampire Hunter Pulsar is a little low, 30cm is not that good in game terms.

and i would like to be able to have just one in my list, so 45 cm on the pulsars and 275 each?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:25 pm 
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I think the point is that AA in Epic is artificially short-ranged, so aircraft generally have to have shorter-ranged weapons too.


Basically, the scale of the airspace is different to the scale of the groundspace. :)

Those stats from the saim haine
Saim Hann army list seem sensible.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:26 pm 
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As Chris noted, a lot of electrons have been spilled over powerful aircraft formations in general.  You really need to read some of the AX-1-0 and VHunter threads.  The quick and dirty version is:

There is an issue with the preponderence of AA being 45cm (Hydras, most Eldar AA, Wyrdboyz, etc.) that means that 45cm range on an aircraft's main payload is sort of a "magic" number.

Against most targets you will be able to approach and fire without any risk of flak.  Against shorter range flak, like Ork Flakwagons, not only can you approach, but you can angle so that you will be able to avoid ever entering the flak range of the target.  Only interceptors are an issue for enemies with those ranges.  Even against stuff with longer range, like SM Hunters, the longer range makes it pretty easy to avoid flak umbrellas for at least the initial attack, even if you can't disengage without being fired at.

Plus, longer ranges make it more likely that you can fire from under your own AA umbrella, making interception less likely or less effective.

Basically range = extra toughness for aircraft.

In addition to that, there are other factors that cause problems. For example, the Saim Hann list version has 45cm AA5+ without fire arc, i.e. 360 degrees.  There is literally no way it can be intercepted by any aircraft in the game without getting to fire decent defensive AA.


Very powerful aircraft formations are always bordering game-breaking.  Even if you point them "accurately" for their abilities, their effect is such that they can affect choices in army composition across the entire game.  They should be approached only with extreme caution.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:00 pm 
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hmmm.. yes i've just gone and read some of the treads about it, so yes the Saim Hann army list does seem good now that i look harder, the 360 missile lancher is the thing that makes them work.

thanks for the help :)

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:17 pm 
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There's also the question of the BT hawk as well.

I could see the way to exclude these from the game altogether.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:45 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Apr. 06 2007,19:17)
QUOTE
There's also the question of the BT hawk as well.

I could see the way to exclude these from the game altogether.

The BT hawk is a pretty much made-up variant that really ought to be replaced with the Turbolaser-armed Thunderhawk...

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Rules for Vampire Hunter.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Yes. Perhabs with bombs/missiles too instead of the transport capacity.

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