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Modular Weapons costs 2.2
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:57 am 
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(Soren @ Apr. 05 2007,09:28)
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I strongly suggest to round const numbers to near multiples of 25. In most cases their are only minor tweaks to do, but makes usage of the list much easier. Don?t think the impact will be that much if a Weapon cost is dropped from 80 to 75 or raised from 120 to 125. As most of the costs are suggestions, I would strongly recommend this to keep things a bit more simple.

I'm not a particular fan of the 'everything must be in 25 point divisions' camp... the majority of Epic armylists have at least one sub-25pt entry in their lists.

However, this'll probably happen at some point anyway.

Apparently people like working in base-4. :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:00 am 
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1) Why did the devotional bell go up by so much?


I wanted the cost of a Standard Configuration Warlord with a Devotional Bell (One with a Gatling Blaster & Volcano Cannon & Bell) to at least equal the cost of a Standard Configuration Warlord with turbolasers.

I felt it was a good starting point.


2) did you intend for warhounds to be still able to only take one weapon?

No, no I did not. :)


EDIT:  An idea for blank slots (for the carapace).  What about extra flak guns, or void shield generators?

An extra Void Shield generator is an interesting idea!

I seem to recall there being some basis for allowing extra void shields in the AT rules too.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:52 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 05 2007,10:00)
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An extra Void Shield generator is an interesting idea!

I seem to recall there being some basis for allowing extra void shields in the AT rules too.

Yup that's why the card void shield circles went to 8 if my memory serves me correctly (which is doubtful...)  :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Void shields were a multiplier for weapon costs.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:14 pm 
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(Markconz @ Apr. 05 2007,07:52)
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 05 2007,10:00)
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An extra Void Shield generator is an interesting idea!

I seem to recall there being some basis for allowing extra void shields in the AT rules too.

Yup that's why the card void shield circles went to 8 if my memory serves me correctly (which is doubtful...) ?:D

Your memory does serve you correctly this time.  :cool:  I'm pretty sure there is something in TL, too.

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Soren
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:46 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 05 2007,10:57)
QUOTE

(Soren @ Apr. 05 2007,09:28)
QUOTE
I strongly suggest to round const numbers to near multiples of 25. In most cases their are only minor tweaks to do, but makes usage of the list much easier. Don?t think the impact will be that much if a Weapon cost is dropped from 80 to 75 or raised from 120 to 125. As most of the costs are suggestions, I would strongly recommend this to keep things a bit more simple.

I'm not a particular fan of the 'everything must be in 25 point divisions' camp... the majority of Epic armylists have at least one sub-25pt entry in their lists.

However, this'll probably happen at some point anyway.

Apparently people like working in base-4. :D

have no Problem with one or two not rounded things. But look at the Warhound Titan. It?s pretty easy to get round Numbers there, so why not using the chance? Marines for example have 1! not rounded point cost (Tornado, which is discussed to change) IG have none if I remember correctly.
Eldar have one? I don?t remember to be honest.

I am a fan of 25 pts-scheme. It keeps things easy and uncomplicated. And you will not feel the difference if the modular weapon cost +5 or -5 points. I always see EA as a tactical game and games should be won with tactics not with points-fXXXXXg like 40k. This is a game-feature reflected in the army lists. And if you start the designing process of a list (a good one imho) it?s a change to include this into your list. I don?t think their is a reason why a Reaver is 390 and not naked 400.

my 0.002 cents

Soren




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ragnarok
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Last night I used a modual weapon Reaver in a 3k point game.  My marines vs some orks (well a whole lot of orks).  The board was devoid of terrain and objectives as we were just playing to remember the rules.

The Reaver had a pair of gatling balsters and a chain fist and squared off against the orks gargant (two suppa guns and a mega choppa).  I managed to get a second turn assault against the gargant, and an intermingled cult of speed.

The combat lasted two rounds and I won  :D .  The cult of speed was wiped out by combat res, the grargant was down to its last DC and had 4 fires (which destroyed it in the end phase)!  The reaver lost 4 DC (my opponent was very unlucky with his mega choppa and only caused 1DC of damage with it), however its reactor blew up in the end phase  :( .

It didn't seem too overpowered (the dice Gods were with me the entire evening).  Hopefully I will be able to get a game in on monday with terrain and objectives and be able to get a better feel of its ability.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:26 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 05 2007,05:49)
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(Ilushia @ Apr. 05 2007,03:16)
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If you're going to charge for empty hard points, why not just increase the base cost of the Titan by an amount equal to the number of hard points it has and drop all weapon costs by the price you would charge for a hard point. In this case Warhounds go up 50, Warlords go up 100 and Reavers go up 75. That'd give you the same effect without the weird "Here's a base price for a titan. Now here's what we charge you for not taking a weapon" situation.

Because most people won't want an empty 4th hardpoint...

I'm not quite getting this comment... You mean that people are more likely to choose not to fill all the slots if you don't pay for them (if their price is invisible to the end user)? To me it seems like they'd be less likely to skip out on weapons if the price of weapons relative to the price of the unit were lower. If you only save 10% of price by skipping weapons instead of 25% you're much less likely to do so (takes you fielding 10 to afford an extra instead of 4). And even if people do it's more of a false economy then buying them as they're still effectively paying the 25 points, it's just less obvious to the person building the list.
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ragnarok
 Post subject: Modular Weapons costs 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Got in a proper game today, down my local GW store (with half a dozen 40K players watching on  :blues: ).  It was 3000pts of Orks Vs Space marines.

The orks had

A gargant with 2 soopa guns and a mega choppa

four normal size warbands

one with a supa zapp gun gun fortress

one with a supa zapp gun gun fortress and 2 battle wagons

one with a soopa gun gun fortress

one with 8 extra boyz and 8 commandos

an 8 strong storm boy mob

and a large cult of speed with 4 skorchas and 12 buggies.

I had

Termies with my supreme commander and 4 lad raiders

2 tactical formations, one with a lazcannon razorback

a devastator formation with 4 heavy bolter razorbacks

a predator formation with two of each type

a land speeder formation with all five upgraded to tornadoes.

and a Reaver with 2 gatling blasters and a chain fist.

I forgot about tactical deployment of objectives (as did my opponent) so 3 of the field objectives were all but on the middle line.  This ment I had the foot slogga warband right in my face and hiding in ruins.

I wont bore you with an action by action report.  However it is safe to say that the turning point of the game was my fourth (or was it third? )activation of the first turn when my termies advanced on the foot warband to prep them for a second turn assault (ie kill a few of the green buggers).  The problem was that they hadn't activated yet and proceeded to knock two stands worth of termies on their backs and nick two land raiders ( I managed to fail 4 out of 8 4+RA saves  :( ) and combat res saw another landraider and stand of termies killed.

The Reaver was the only useful formation I had.

First turn it advances, shoots a bit, but achieves very little.

second turn it advanced on the foot sloggas and shoots them in the side (since they had over run my terminators position), so that its shots could ignore the damn grot screen.

third turn it engaged the foot sloggers in close combat and left only three stands alive.  Though it lost all of its voids and suffered a point of damage an a critical (which it fixed in the end phase)

Fourth turn it engaged the soopagun fortress warband.  Killing all the infantry losing three DC in the porcess and losing due to a snake eyes roll  ??? , but braking the fortess.  Being broken it ran at the mob with a supa zap gun fortess but no wagons and getting them in its zone of control, as a result the orks decided to engage it and were wiped out but reduced it to 1DC.

Overall the dice gods were against me, but we did think that the Chain blade should cost a bit more (say 125pts).  Though not as destructive as a power fist, nor blessed with ranged like the las cutter, it is still able to cut through hordes and war engines with ease.

Alas I can't say how well a modular titan helps a marine army since this was my first real game with them.  Though its ability to kill up to 12 enemy units in an engagement did make the large warband look less scary.

hopefully I will be able to get more games in soon and be able to report on how wella MWC titan legion fairs, I might even be able to build a second reaver.  This time armed with gatling blaster chain fist and power fist  :D .

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