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Zoanthropes & Spore Mines

 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:44 am 
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set off a chain reaction.


That's largely why I'm for the 'killable' version of the Spore Cloud.

Plus, less special rules.

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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:08 am 
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Perhaps make Spore Mine clouds something with multiple DC? I had, at one point, been designing a high-tech version of a Siege Regiment, which included placeable minefields were DTTs for WEs/AVs, DTTs which hit on 1 or 2 for Infantry/LVs. The Minefields were considered War Engines with no ZoC, and couldn't move. Had DC 8, 3+ Save, no RA. Teleport. Critical hit caused a chain reaction dealing 1 hit to every model inside its area, then the minefield took another DC. When reduced to 0 DC, the minefield was no longer useful.

I think something similar would work nicely here. You can potentially shoot down a cloud, it's just quite difficult. Had a 12cm diameter (Size of an orbital barrage template), and damage delt by them DID incur new blast markers.


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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:34 am 
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I was for multiple DC at first, but I've come around to the 'multiple LV's' view instead now.

Largely because:

- You can have multiple attacks against enemy aircraft formations (Something we all felt was important I think).
- the AA power of the cloud can be degraded over time instead of remaining fixed in power.
- AP weapons can target LV clouds.

And above all, because all the above can be achieved without needing any new special rules. Even if a 'can't claim cover saves' note is included, that's nowhere near the multiple special rules required for a DTT / indestructable / deployable / gives blast markers to planes that fly into range / spore cloud.


Plus, a small formation of 6 spores looks far more visually appealing than a single spore.





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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:05 am 
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Well got a quick game in today, though didn't manage to use the spores. Will try them out next week because my opponent then is an aircraft fan...

Zoanthropes seemed ok. The MW FF attack is nice.

Will put up a brief Batrep ASAP.

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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:02 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 08 2007,21:29)
QUOTE
About Zoanthropes. I couldn't find the discussion that I remember it being turned into Synapse. So the question is that should it. If it loses that AA I don't see a reason why go against the current fluff. Perhaps 2 for 100 points with 1d3 spawning (and fearless?).

But should they be? It is only an optional upgrade for zoanthropes in 40k, which replaces another psychic ability slot on them. Isn't adding synapse to zoanthropes a bit like adding lots of guns to a carnifex - an unnatural 40k thing we don't do in epic because we have a greater variety of species available?  :;):

The question for me is what do synapse zoanthropes add to the list that it doesn't already have? Seems like a redundant change, I'd prefer to just keep them as specialised psychic attack units I think.

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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:48 pm 
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I should point out that at present Warp Blast is also optional in 40K. The only powers they come with is Warp Field (Awesome armor saves) and Spore Vents (or something like that, gives folks attacking them a penalty on WS). They get 2 more psychic powers of choice. The Horror (Causes stuff charging them to suffer Ld checks to do so), Warp Blast, Synapse Creature or Catalyst I believe are the options. And, to  be honest, Warp Blast+Synapse Creature is probably the most popular combo of powers for them in 40K scale that I've seen.


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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:21 pm 
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They can also take 'warp shadow' or somesuch name like that (Decreases enemy ld by 1 if they're close by).

The most common choice by far for Zoanthropes are Synapse & Warp Blast.

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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:30 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 01 2007,07:11)
QUOTE
- You can attack them with normal weapons
- They interact with ground forces (block movement and so on)
- The AA weapons are then better against smaller amount of aircraft than larger
- They can end up in cover
- They can be destroyed if they stop over terrain
- Are cheap activation for Tyranids

It requires 5 sentences to explain them. That is about same as Wraithgate, so it's definitely not too much. And you will need extra rules on your case as well.

I don't think they are nearly as problematic as you are portraying, Hena.  The stats E&C proposed are actually rather elegant in that regard.

Think of the units as big clouds that reach from where their tendrils just graze the ground up to a height that would interfere with aircraft.  Most of your objections vanish with that concept.

Normal units could fire at them.

The "unit" is really somewhat dispersed.  Like Scouts, their 5cm ZoC would be attributable to things like dispersion, erratic movement of the tendrils being blown by the wind and so on, rather than actual physical presence.

They could potentially become fouled in terrain and be "destroyed" when the cloud breaks up or if a balloon mis-identified something blows up, setting off a chain reaction.  Skimmer/5cm move (i.e. always moving cautiosly) would make that rather rare, but it is not unreasonable for it to be possible.

The only explanation required would be that they cannot claim cover saves.

Cheap activations are a matter of appropriate formation composition and pricing.  After all, Nids can rack up on cheap Lictor formations or Genestealer formations as well if they want to jack up their activation count.

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 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:59 pm 
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Make them support craft (see Tau/Dark Eldar)?  That would cover terrain and LOS issues for ground troops...

Just throwing it out there.

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