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Tyranid v7.3.1
ragnarok
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:15 am 
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I think that the inspiring represents the defenders moral sinking to a new low.

Fighting genestealers is bad enough.  The most elite close combat troops in the galaxy.  It has to suck facing them.  But a brood lord.  This is a stealer that can shrug off hits that would blast apart its smaller brethern and is even more powerful than your average stealer.

Not only that but a broodlords preseance means the genestealers have been planet side for a long time, which means there are probably hundreds of them hiding in brood nests across the planet.

So it isn't such much as the broodlord being inspiring, but what he represents to the defenders slim hopes of living.

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thurse
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:28 pm 
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Well why not, if game balance ask for it.
But on the justification.... "After killing his third dominatrix with his bare hands, imperial guard sergent Chuck Norris flew in front of the horrible patriarch"

More seriously, a remark on the wordings :
this :

At the start of the game the Tyranid player first makes synapse groups from synapse creatures.

and the whole T1.30 refers to synapse groups being formed at the beginning of the game.
It should be removed as synapse groups are now fixed by the list

Cheers

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:42 pm 
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A few bugs in the list:


- The Hierophant's weapon arms are listed as 'Twin Bio-Cannon'. In fact Hierophants have 2x normal Bio Cannons.



Wait ...

That's apparently it...


The fluff audit is done. This list is 98% fluff-accurate. :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:46 pm 
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Now gameplay critique.


I like having Winged Warriors, but as well as losing a pip of armour save, I'd probably look at making them 50 points more expensive.


1D3+3 & Invulnerable save sounds good for the Dominatrix. I suspect that she'll then be balanced at 450 points (She's overpriced right now IMHO).



And finally...

Maybe start a vote on whether or not to remove the Vituraptor? (It's not getting a model, and noone seems to use it anyway).




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ragnarok
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:11 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 20 2007,11:46)
QUOTE
And finally...

Maybe start a vote on whether or not to remove the Vituraptor? (It's not getting a model, and noone seems to use it anyway).

**Waves hands frantically and jumps up and down**

I use it... will use it... when I finish the model and find an opponent.

I probably wont use it as a synpase creature, rather as a highly mobile light bio titan.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:08 pm 
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We have used the Vituperator.  My main Nid opponent (not that we've played Nids in a long time) loves his.

It's not terribly hard to convert, either - Smaller biotitan body, stock wings, stock claws, Dominatrix head.  The only read conversion is attaching the head.  Everything else just glues into pre-existing sockets with little or not modification.


More later...

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:12 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 20 2007,14:52)
QUOTE

(Hena @ Feb. 19 2007,23:07)
QUOTE
First a little clearing on Dominatrix critical.
6: The Dominatrix's Symbiote is killed and loses Supreme Commander and Synapse and is now counted as Independent. The Dominatrix is killed if this effect is rolled again.

Ha, I can play silly bugger with myself. There is one problem with this wording. Now someone might say that in tie break dominatrix with this critical counts as Independent (eg, not twice the value). I redact this wording :D.

That is a bit of a pickle... (Hmmm... we were supposed to get pickles!)

Even just the "loses Synapse" may cause a problem in that regard.  I'll ponder it.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:49 pm 
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After looking over the list in more detail I have several stylistic/editorial items and a couple mechanical ones.

T1.30 - The whole "Synpase Groups" section can be cut.  It's a holdover from the "design-your-own" SC Group period and is no longer applicable.

T1.40 - The second paragraph (independent swarms) has awkward wording.

Third paragraph has some sort of typo so it's missing words in the first line.

Fourth paragraph includes references to the defunct synapse group concept.

I recommend creating a T1.41 subsection (or whatever number it ends up as) regarding coherency during Engage actions for clarity.

T1.50 - I think it might be a good idea to stop referring to Spawning "Actions" because of potential confusion with an activation in the main turn sequence.  The "action" terminology is holdover from when spwning was an action.  My suggestion woudl be to rewrite the sections with references that Nids spawn instead of rallying.  That would make it clear that spawning is part of the rally process and that it would fit in the play sequence exactly where rallying does.

T1.80 - I'm not satisfied with #5 under the template rules.  I like the concept but I'm not sure about the verbiage.  It seems wordy, as if there should be a more elegant and clear way to say the same thing.

Dom - Is it supposed to be DC6 instead of DC8?

Tyrant/Warrior - I think the wings option is fine on both.

Broodlord - regardgin the inspiring controversy, what about a non-Inspiring version for only +25 points?  Just an idea...

Heirophant and Hydraphant - I'll comment in the other thread.

Malefactor - This looks just a touch on the too-good side based on the stats.  50 points for BM placement and 3 FF4+ attacks seems like an extremely useful toy for the Nids.  I haven't tried it out so I can't say for sure, but I think this is one to watch.

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thurse
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Hi!
On my behalf :
1) Hierodules : too good with fearless for the cost
2) Malefactor and Venomfex : too good in FF
3) Winged tyrants : nice but  it might replace harridans as a no brainer. Harridan (and vituperator) are quite fragile as they can be "sniped", contrary to warriors.
An army with winged warriors where all common creatures are gargoyles should be tested.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:28 pm 
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3) Winged tyrants : nice but  it might replace harridans as a no brainer. Harridan (and vituperator) are quite fragile as they can be "sniped", contrary to warriors.
An army with winged warriors where all common creatures are gargoyles should be tested.


That's why I've recomended an increased points cost if you want wings on your Warriors.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:26 pm 
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Ditch winged warriors and winged tyrants. More things that weres relying on new sculpt or were put in there because of 40k codex rather than anything else. These are not easy conversions to get right and would be very fiddly. I guarantee you would see lots of people saying 'oh by the way this brood painted differently is supposed to have wings...'.  

Epic nids have harridans. Keep it clean and simple and take out the redundancy.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Tyranid v7.3.1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:48 pm 
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Flyrants can be made easily with warmaster dragon wings and flying warriors can be made with warmaster harpy wings (I never said it would be cheap!).

A cheaper version for flyrants would be 40K tyrant wings, and epic gargoyle wings could be used (at a push) for flying warriors.  Another option might be the "Mounted Wight Standard Bearer Helmet Wings".  Though I'm not sure what size they are, so they might be a bit big.

As to all these wing synapse taking over from Harridans as Gargoyle brood mothers.  My Harridan is used as a mobile synpase (incase any swarm loses its synpase), a rapidly deployable gun platform, and if neither of the previous are needed, then I use her to argument spawning in a swarm.

I have found that a winged tyrant normal doesn't arract that much fire in a gargoyle unit.  Most weapons that have range (in this I have een careful) are AP and AT, so usually go for the more numerous gargoyles.  Also I always make sure there are other taste AV units nearer to the target.  Such as Fex herd and bio titans.

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