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Tyranid AA weapons
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:19 pm 
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Clearly you do not regularily use siege equipment :)

If flak is practically just this device something special would cetainly be in order - I take it this replaces everyhting else? If you don't like strips I guess several point models with a 10cm radius effect would be okay - why multiple? You have to have multiple if you want to set up an obsticle for manoverable fliers and this connects with deployment - how to deploy them fairly?

An individual unit formation if it can die is no obsticle for fliers. Easily killed by screening formations if to goes too far forward, and if back with the troops useless once you move pass them they would be very easy to ignore. So you compensate with lots - but that means as the battle goes on its easier for fliers to operate as they die - something that is against as far as I can see the relentless nature of the army. Surely things should get worse?

Also if they are units and I assume independant what stops you loading up for a dozen stalling activations as you use up these things and let the opponent run himself down?

Unless of course your clouds move with the swarms/are part of them, which makes them somewhat strange clouds.

If you want stationary AA you will have to come up with something special.

Chris - Siegemaster nut

Looking back through the thread to try to ilistrate this, heres a key problem with the page 3 suggestion.

Meiotic Spore Cloud
Gives a 30cm radius circle (use a counter to mark a centre point) which counts as difficult terrain for Aircraft. Any aircraft formation entering the cloud gets a BM as per rules for opening fire as the spores blow up near them. The clouds are deployed after objectives, but before garrisons. The timing is same as Tau Markerlight Drones (so alternating deployment if both are used same as any other deployement).


The way I would see this working is buying 3 and setting them up along the enemy baseline giving blanket coverage. All fliers would have to test as they entered the board. Either leave off different table edge or fly back through. Thats either 2bm and one test a turn or rules dependant 1bm and two tests.

Anyone think of a better deployment? Anywhere else they could be avoided unless you set up a u shap and advanced down centre, forcing planes to test as they disengage. Still takes three though, coverage not as good.

If you go for this you may as well have in the list an option to buy the special rule - spore clouds, any aircraft entering table must make a dangerous terrain test. 200 points (or whatever). Which I believe has been pointed out before.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:15 am 
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Ahh crapola! I totally missed the stationary AA part of the proposal. Now I understand why people were going on about the 180cm coverage...

I guess what I really would like is a standard AA bug that goes in a swarm like every other AA unit in the game and can move about

I can totally understand the want for something alien for the bugs but really, having it this way would go a long way to making it so players on both sides of the table can understand it - the unit and the concept.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:25 am 
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Well, the siegemasters have move zero AA :)

But yes, a moving bug is a different kettle of fish so to speak and would be whatever normal thing you wanted. If you wanted to be the worse though a couple of army lists would argue about how bad they were :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:25 am 
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I like the stationary spore-cloud wich counts as dangerous terrain. Simply use a Titan base (60cm in diameter)model a WH40k Sporemine on it and voil?!
Trenches and wires are used to guard from one side. Flak should cover from all sides, so no stripes of spores but a circular base.

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orangesm
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:49 am 
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Just had an idea - make it a unit, with no weapons, has the 10 cm Difficult Terrain Test that it activates, has scout, also has no ZoC.  The idea being that they can be taken in units of 3.  This gives the unit an area  (942 cm2) less than the 30 cm version (2826 cm2), that is  a third less than the single version with the 30 cm radius.
Edit: Actually it is less than that because they will overlap reducing it to a further 628 cm2 and can be less.  It would be very dangerous to try and fly through the center of the unit - 2 test at least, possibly more.

I think this actually is kind of middle of the road.  It has a the effect of producing a 'maze' if enough are purchased, uses the DTT, makes them vulernable to fire!




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Ilushia
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:03 am 
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What about something like:


Meotic Spore Cloud

Type/ Speed/ Armour/ CC/ FF
Flying/ Special/ 5+/ NA/NA
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower
Spore Explosions / 15cm / 2x AA 6+

Special Rules: Each turn, after teleports but before rolling to see who gets first activation, the spore cloud may be moved in any direction. Choose a direction and roll 2D6, moving them that many CM in that direction. If they start, end or move through the range of an anti-aircraft weapon the weapon may attack the cloud. Aircraft may make Intercept attacks against Meotic Spore Clouds, but may not take Combat Air Patrol against them. Meotic Spore Clouds may not be activated.

Fielded in units of 4 or so each. Basically they're slow moving fliers, with AA weapons. Can be shot down by aircraft, but will usually get fired back against them. If the enemy can get AA within range they can be blown up. They have low Armor Saves to represent that significant portions of the cloud can have chain-reactions which destroy them all at once. Potentially I suppose you could make them be Brood creatures (Like Brood (1)) but do not need to remain within synapse range.

I don't know if it'd be particularly great. But it'd give them a fairly simplistic set of rules. Since Tyranids are already blast-marker immune you even avoid the "How does my flying-but-not-flying unit get effected by blast markers?"
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Markconz
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:57 am 
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Illushia - lots of special rules but it sounds pretty cool... will think some more :)

What points?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:32 pm 
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Aye I was thinking the same... allowing placement on the opponent's side of the board (At the begining of the game) would be overpowered.

If the 'nid player wants to place Spore clouds on the opponent's board edge, he'd have to fly a Synapse or four over there... and run the risk of the newly spawned cloud drifting off the edge of the board! :D

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:32 pm 
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Right now I would favor:

Non-unit clouds (unkillable), difficult terrain, deployed like fortifcations, somewhere between 15 and 30cm radius, spawnable

Radius, spawning points and point cost to be determined by playtest.


Suggested starting point:

30cm radius, 3 spawning points, 25 points, uncommon brood

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:41 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 20 2007,15:38)
QUOTE
Spawning is a bit of a pickle here. First off you need synapse for that. Second someone might think that synapses might be able to spawn these.

I'm going to try this without spawning with 15cm radius and 35 points a pop.

I haven't really weighed in here much about this lately, I'm still thinking things through.

I *really* think a 30cm radius is too big... that's a 60cm zone of "danger", just seems too effective for an individual spore swarm.

As to the spawn, it could represent the Synapse creatures "calling" spores towards them, but I'm still not sure about that.

I like them as "terrain features"/aerial minefields.

I'll be putting up a proposal in a new thread soon.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:01 pm 
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I'm hellah against the clouds being unkillable... it's both against the background (Where they go off in a chain reaction if shot too much) and unweildy game-wise (Let alone annoying for the opponent).

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:10 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 20 2007,16:01)
QUOTE
I'm hellah against the clouds being unkillable... it's both against the background (Where they go off in a chain reaction if shot too much) and unweildy game-wise (Let alone annoying for the opponent).

E&C, I'll explain more later in my proposal.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Tyranid AA weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:11 pm 
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I think my suggestion got lost behind TRC's, but adding a time limit on the unkillable cloud will make it more workable.  Give it a duration of 2 turns which could represent it coming under fire or disipating or whatever fluff you need to satisfy.

It would be interesting to see overlapping areas being covered as the Tyranids advance and -as more points are diverted from the clouds to the ground units- the AA coverage would thin out.

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