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Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
Honda
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:06 pm 
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Just getting caught up on this thread, so pardon some of the possibly late comments:


The difference is that Gorgons are veritable deathtraps. The destruction of a Gorgon leads to the death of 10 infantry stands with no saves.

The invulnerable save to the front arc has an important reason to exist, just as the glancing save does in 40k.


Not providing this comment to open up old wounds, but since we play with a lot of mechanized forces, not the least of which are Wave Serpent transported Guardians (who do not have a save either), it should be noted that crashed infantry get a minimum save of +6 or their armor save (from FAQ).

So in a ten unit formation, you're not going to save a bunch of these in any case and I would not suggest at this point changing the point value because of the statement, but, it is worth mentioning that it is possible that some of the stands would survive.

Also on LordI's note on the Gorgon being an open topped vehicle, there is a significant vulnerabilty there that should be looked at. However, I think this item should be discussed after some play testing.

Keep up the good work!




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:04 pm 
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Where does the 6+ save come from?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:25 pm 
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its the cover save every transported infantry gets if their transport is destroyed. They can use this 6+ cover save or their armor save which ever is better (but if the transport is destroyed per MW negates this save as usual).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:03 pm 
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Fair enough I wasn't aware of that.

But still, most of them are going to die horribly. :D

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:05 pm 
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BL is correct ... IMO ... that is a good way to handle the Gorgon ... And may have missed this, but the front hull should get an increased armor bonus ... IMO.  :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:23 pm 
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(Legion 4 @ Dec. 30 2006,17:05)
QUOTE
...the front hull should get an increased armor bonus ... IMO.  :)

I wanted to have something of the sort, but it has proven very unpopular amongst most posters here.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:19 am 
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Too bad ... Cretins ! :angry:  :;):

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:49 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 30 2006,17:23)
QUOTE

(Legion 4 @ Dec. 30 2006,17:05)
QUOTE
...the front hull should get an increased armor bonus ... IMO.  :)

I wanted to have something of the sort, but it has proven very unpopular amongst most posters here.

This does make me wonder if you can have fixed forward fire arcs why not a fixed forward save bonus?

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:03 pm 
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It comes down to how much detail you want in the game ...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:08 pm 
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Aye.

I'm quite happy to have a save bonus to the fixed forward arc on Gorgons (It's characterful & ties in with the 40k rules etc), but it's been quite an unpopular concept.

Perhaps a vote to settle it?

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orangesm
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm 
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I am for it.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:07 am 
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Id vote for it as gorgons are a signature DK war engine and worthy of such detail also as it makes intuitive sense...

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:50 am 
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I'd vote against it, big front ramp or no, it is still an open topped vehicle in 40K.

Also, I think it is yet another special unit rule that - although I don't entirely agree with this - is generally held to be something to avoid in "proper" lists.

If you do go for it, I would recommend giving it a Cover Save to hits from the front arc (that's the easiest way to represent it and will be ignored by appropriate weapons such as MW)
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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:09 am 
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Haveing said that Im in favour of the front arc improved save, I do also sympathise with what Lord Inq says- in that there may be enough variations with the list that the Gorgon will do fine without an improved fromt save (Also it can be seen to balanceout given the weakness of being open topped).

I also know how hard it was for Evil and Chaos to take the gorgon special rule out and I dont want to seem counter productive by reopening this topic of discussion.  

Perhaps the way to go would be to add the improved front arc in as an optional rule alongside the tourney list. Lets face it- most people play friendly games where having some cool house rules is less of an issue.    For that matter fortifications could fit in there too.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Death Korps of Krieg v1.8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:59 pm 
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I think a cover save is a bad idea, because there are a few weapons that ignore cover,  wouldn't make the Gorgon vulnerable in ways that are both not in character and don't tie in with 40k idea of the Gorgon, witch are what the Epic rules are based on?

and the idea of  better armour in the front arc is both in theme and  easy to use.

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