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Space Marines.
Yes! 66%  66%  [ 21 ]
No! 31%  31%  [ 10 ]
I don't care, but I like to vote! 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 32

Space Marines.
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Space Marines.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:25 pm 
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(J0k3r @ Oct. 26 2006,16:01)
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Neil,

I completely understand what you are saying here andthink it is a good way to go.  However for this approach to have efferct there needs to be a push to accept variant lists and make them "official" alternate doctrine lists.

I'm down with Jok3r on this.

One of the reasons I tend to be in favour of adopting broader Codex lists is because the fringe lists have little to no support, so the only chance of gaining greater variety in an army is either House Rules (Highly problematic as gaming groups then become insular) or via the rules updates from the ERC.

So it's partially simple circumstance that leads me to want Multi-Melta dreadnoughts in the Codex list, for example.

I'm always going to be in favour of some rules patches however, if I think they're justified for inclusion in the main Codex army lists either because of budgetary reasons preventing their original inclusion (Modular Titans) or because the unit did not exist in the cannon at the time the army list was written (Land Raider Helios***, Thunderhawk Transporter).



***Although you could argue that a unit like the Helios belongs in a Red Scorpions variant list (As they were the Chapter which invented them), what you'd end up with is the standard 'Codex' list, with added Helios & Apothecaries, and a 0-1 limit on Scouts... that's it. Seems rather pointless for a Chapter variant list just to add one unit and one character, when with a little extra effort they could be incorporated into the main list.


We know that Jervis was in favour of post-release patches to army list after all (The lamented & absent Capitol Imperialis).




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Bombot
 Post subject: Space Marines.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:30 pm 
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A full-strength Tactical detachment is 17% better than the Devastators in a firefight, for an extra 20% cost. ?Lose some infantry, and the Devs start losing ground fast.

Also, stick a character in the Tactical detachment and he should survive longer.




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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Space Marines.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:52 pm 
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Vindicators cannon is 24" in 40k that translates into 15cm. Why it was 30cm I don't know.


Same reason that Assault Cannons and Plasma Guns are 24" in 40k but 30cm in Epic.  Game balance.

Considering that I used the White Scars bikes for my Ravenwing when I wrote up a DA list, they work, but...

Some variant lists are VERY different (Space Wolves), and some are distinctly less different (Dark Angels).  Some lists are in between (Blood Angels).  

My Wolf list only has vehicles in common with the Codex marine list.  Dark Angels have a couple different units (Ravenwing bikes, A-Bikes, and Speeders), and a couple new units (LR Prometheus, LS Tempest).  The Blood Angels list HAS to have Death Company, and may take some uber-assault marines (Honor Guard).

If we push all the units that are available to all chapters into the Codex list, that means that Codex variant lists can just add the Chapter-specific units and Formations (like the DA, WhiteScars, BAs, Sallies, or Templars).  While the really unique Chapter(s), like the Wolves, get a nearly-complete rewrite of the Codex list to make their list (who am I kidding... I pretty much just took the Daemons out of the BL list and added ATSKNF to make my Wolf list).

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Space Marines.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:18 pm 
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I've been thinking about the Vindie. I think the weapon is fine as is and it all it really needs is an increase in speed to 30. That way if it's taken as an upgrade, it can keep pace with other vehicles in the detachement.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Space Marines.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:26 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 26 2006,16:25)
QUOTE

(J0k3r @ Oct. 26 2006,16:01)
QUOTE
Neil,

I completely understand what you are saying here andthink it is a good way to go.  However for this approach to have efferct there needs to be a push to accept variant lists and make them "official" alternate doctrine lists.

I'm down with Jok3r on this.

One of the reasons I tend to be in favour of adopting broader Codex lists is because the fringe lists have little to no support, so the only chance of gaining greater variety in an army is either House Rules (Highly problematic as gaming groups then become insular) or via the rules updates from the ERC.

I agree.  I've been pushing the ERC to do exactly that.  Right now there are 2 major road blocks:

1)  Rules Review
2)  SG

I've been pushing Greg on the rules review as much as I feel I can without becoming a jerk about it.  SG has some issues with respect to the chaos lists as everyone knows.  All the currently official pieces have to fall in line before variant lists get attention.

That said, I honestly think that with a realistic timetable we could be to the point of developing multiple variant lists to official status within 6 months.

I don't think that will happen but I think it could be done and that it could be done well, probably not perfectly as we've seen in the past how development goes, but definitely done well.

I've also pushed for a semi-offical rules vault for items that are generally considered balanced.

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