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Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
vanvlak
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:41 am 
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(ragnarok @ Oct. 05 2006,19:28)
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 05 2006,17:42)
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Has anyone got any experience of Rag'Narok?

Who's been experiencing me?   :laugh:  :D

:laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

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vanvlak
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:44 am 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 06 2006,02:52)
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I disagree about heroes being so powerful in warhammer 6th and 7th (with the exception of the special characters which no one uses except on very rare occasions). More typical complaints are that heroes have been toned down too much in 6th and 7th.  Even the most powerful heroes in the game like chaos lords cannot win a combat against a mere unit of goblins! (The goblins start with combat res of +5, chaos lords need to hit and wound with all of their attacks to even equal this).  Saying warhammer heroes can win games by themselves is simply not true - they need backup and plenty of it.

Hear hear. Although my own chaos lord cannot even win against under-ranked weak units....  :( e3

'e3' above was Sarastro's comment on the point, S being one of the cats.

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:21 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 05 2006,17:42)
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It was mentioned that Maelstrom has very different combat resolution. Are there any more details on exactly how this works in the game?

Actually I said the command, not combat system is different.

Maelstorme is all about formations and discipline of troops. Please note that the terminology below is from Slaughterloo as I don't have the maelstorme rulebook with me. However, the meanings of the terms are identical so it does't really matter.

The models are grouped into units commanded by an officer, which in turn are grouped into divisions commanded by a general. The whole army is commaded by a CinC effectively representing you.

The officers are there for giving orders and that's it. They aren't any help in combat. They can be of different experience level which affects their command redius as well as the amount of units they can effectively command. There are also special officers who can give the army soe benefits but may interpret your orders the way that suits their mentality.

There are order cards in the game that are the heart and soul of the command system. A general's cards affect one unit in his division while a CinC's card affects a whole division. The orders give the unit(s) boost in doing something, like changing formation, charging etc. and the effects of a General's card and a CinC's card stack.

Magic is very weak and concentrates on either aiding friendly troops by giving bonuses to whatever they are doing or hindering the enemy by giving them penalties.

IIRC the game has no unit construction system.

A link to the AA website.


Has anyone got any experience of Rag'Narok?


I have the rules. I admit I have not played it but from one reading the rules seem complicated and, at times, confusing. Some of the mini lines are gorgeous (Cynwall elves, Griffin, Lions, Wolfen ) and some are terrible (Dwarves, goblins). the rest are OK. The The background is simply great.

If you want to have the rules I'm very willing to sell them to you to get more room for Zoids.  :;):

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:00 pm 
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Many thanks, all.

Are any of these games mechanics using formation activation, as in Epic? I fond this an interesting method for this type of game.

I may have to pick up a copy of Maelstrom, it sounds interesting (and similar to Vis Bellica).

I have also found that Caliver Books has AoA for 14.50 pounds, and I have just won the ebay auction for Chronopia. My library grows!

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:51 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 06 2006,17:00)
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Many thanks, all.

Are any of these games mechanics using formation activation, as in Epic? I fond this an interesting method for this type of game.

I may have to pick up a copy of Maelstrom, it sounds interesting (and similar to Vis Bellica).

Yes there are certainly similarities although I'd compare it to Vis Magica, the Fantasy version of Vis Bellica (I have a copy of those rules too  :;):  ).

Basically I think Vis Magica is the epitome of "low" fantasy; I might call it a historical game with fantasy elements as it has even less magic and monsters than Maelstorme.


I have also found that Caliver Books has AoA for 14.50 pounds, and I have just won the ebay auction for Chronopia. My library grows!


That's the spirit brother! Rules all the way!  :cool:

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:13 pm 
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Yes, I have Vis Magica too. It is not my preferred rules set, for the reasons that you state - I like Vis Bellica as a historical rules set, but want something different from a fantasy game and the same rules mechanics just dont work so well for me.

Chronopia should arrive soon, I will pick up Raven and probably Armies of Arcana. I would like to take you up on your offer of Rag'Narok. These four, with Battlestorm and Warlord makes a good selection for Fantasy rules. I still need to save the funds for Warhammer too - which I probably will pick up.

I still think that I will go about rewriting Battlestorm for my own use, but another couple of rules sets are always good!

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:00 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 07 2006,22:13)
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Chronopia should arrive soon, I will pick up Raven and probably Armies of Arcana. I would like to take you up on your offer of Rag'Narok. These four, with Battlestorm and Warlord makes a good selection for Fantasy rules. I still need to save the funds for Warhammer too - which I probably will pick up.

Sounds good. You want to have a go at converting Chronopia to a mass combat game someday? I think I'm too lazy to try and do that on my own.  :;):


I still think that I will go about rewriting Battlestorm for my own use, but another couple of rules sets are always good!


Now what was it somebody said... "amateurs borrow, professionals steal."  :p  A very good reason to have a large rules library IMO.

I'll have to take a look at the Battlestorm.

Oh, and I do recommend you take a look at the "No Quarter" rules I mentioned earlier as it is a freely downloadable  game. I can't say it's superb but it is good enough and has some usable ideas, especially the unit construction system.

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Magnus
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:41 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 06 2006,18:00)
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Are any of these games mechanics using formation activation, as in Epic? I fond this an interesting method for this type of game.


Chronopia. It departs from the "I go you go" system using unit activation, one of its main strengths IMO.
Basically, you activate your unit, and every figure in that unit can spend its actions doing stuff (moving, shooting etc.). Once all figures in the unit have spent all their actions, the activation ceases and the other player acts.

Other highlights of Chronopia include an intelligent (as in: not broken) magic system, and the fact that, much like Epic, if your super-duper hero/monster/big special piece gets caught in the middle of enemy units without any support he dies the ignominious death he deserves for being such an idiot.
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:05 pm 
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Well, Chronopia arrived today, so I will spend the next couple of days looking over it. I would be interested in reworking it into a mass combat game, but I think that I will work on that a bit later.

The more that I think about it, the more I feel that I will simply write my own rules, inspired by various sources. The main things that I want to change from Battlestorm are the dice and combat resolution. It uses a D30 (which I had never even heard of before the game. Now I own several of the things!), which is a horrible dice to actually use. It also uses 'opposing rolls' which is fine for skirmish level games, but gets very complicated very quickly for massed units in combat. Given these two factors, the game wont actually be so close to the original Battlestorm at all, and that is before I even add things like magic, war machines, chariots, etc - which never made it into the original game.

I sat down last night and sketched out the first draft of a combat system and infantry profile, so I will go through the various rule sets that I have and see what the result is. When it is done, I could offer it for download here, for proof reading and play testing.

I also downloaded the No Quarter rules, and will add them into the collection.

I must admit that I am also intrigued by Maelstrome from what I have heard, but I cant find any reviews of it online. Does anyone know of any?

Thanks.

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:24 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 10 2006,19:05)
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I sat down last night and sketched out the first draft of a combat system and infantry profile, so I will go through the various rule sets that I have and see what the result is. When it is done, I could offer it for download here, for proof reading and play testing.

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease! Please?  :;):


I must admit that I am also intrigued by Maelstrome from what I have heard, but I cant find any reviews of it online. Does anyone know of any?

Thanks.


Unfortunately no. But the offer to loan extends to Maelstorme as well as I have my hands full with other things at the moment. I can send the books with the Rag'Narok; I doubt it wll add to the postage. And if it will, well, anything to help a rules designer.  :)  Especially since I'm bound to benefit from the process.   :)

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:54 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 10 2006,18:05)
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I sat down last night and sketched out the first draft of a combat system and infantry profile, so I will go through the various rule sets that I have and see what the result is. When it is done, I could offer it for download here, for proof reading and play testing.

Ofcourse you should make it downloadable for us.  :;):

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Fantasy Battle - How good is it?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:00 pm 
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:D  Give me a week or two and I will put up a first draft. I cant promise that they will be any good, and I cant promise to listen to any suggestions (I can be very stubborn about what I want from a game), but any feedback would at least be interesting.

As for Maelstrome... I will probably just pick up a copy, since I have now won Chronopia and Raven at cheap prices, and Rag'Narok soon at very reasonable price as well!

Thanks.

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