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7.1 WIP (Kooky)
epilgrim
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:26 pm 
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At a minimum here are the changes that should be given some consideration:

Zoanthrope: should include the Walker ability. Since it floats in WH40K, it should re-roll terrain tests.

Gargoyle: Bio-Plasma should be First Strike. Think of it as similar to a Rough Rider lance.

Vemon Cannon and Twin -Linked Vemon Cannon: change (respectively) to
2x AP 5+ / AT 6+
2x AP 4+ / AT 5+
(IMO this reflects the total output of these weapons over each turn)

Warp Blast: change to
30cm MW 5+ and
30cm AA 5+ and
(15cm) (small arms) Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)

Large Warp Blast: change to
Bio-Titan Warp Blast
30cm MW4+ and
30cm AA 5+ and
(15cm) (small arms) Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)

These changes are more reflective (IMO) of the weapons effects and encompasses their abilitities in FF (WH40K 4 turn games), in addition this would eliminate the reference to the Smite ability for the Dominatrix.

Bio-Electirc Field: change to
3x AP 4+ / AT 5+ Ignore Cover (just to give it a different feel from the Spine Banks shooting attack).

Without adding anything this is what I would suggest.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:33 am 
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(epilgrim @ Sep. 17 2006,23:26)
QUOTE

At a minimum here are the changes that should be given some consideration:

Zoanthrope: should include the Walker ability. Since it floats in WH40K, it should re-roll terrain tests.

I agree that they should have walker. ?All nids are adapt at moving though cover.

Gargoyle: Bio-Plasma should be First Strike. Think of it as similar to a Rough Rider lance.

If anything I think that gargoyles should have skimmer. ?They normally fly high and dive down onto a battle field.

Vemon Cannon and Twin -Linked Vemon Cannon: change (respectively) to
2x AP 5+ / AT 6+
2x AP 4+ / AT 5+
(IMO this reflects the total output of these weapons over each turn)

I Think that 1 shot is fine with the venom cannon, it isn't that great. ?Iwould also prefer that the venomfex was changed to a sniperfex with venomcannon and barbed strangler combo. ?It is much more popular than the over costed venomfex

Barbed strangler
range 30cm AP3+ AT6+ disrupt

Warp Blast: change to
30cm MW 5+ and
30cm AA 5+ and
(15cm) (small arms) Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)

Large Warp Blast: change to
Bio-Titan Warp Blast
30cm MW4+ and
30cm AA 5+ and
(15cm) (small arms) Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)

These changes are more reflective (IMO) of the weapons effects and encompasses their abilitities in FF (WH40K 4 turn games), in addition this would eliminate the reference to the Smite ability for the Dominatrix.

Overall I like the idea. ?However I'm in two minds about the MW on the smaller warp blast. ?It does kill troops with easy (bar termies and their ike) but is usless against tanks, unless you drop the rank and that a psychic test.

Possible the following could work
warp blast
range 30cm AP5+ MW
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and
? ? ? ? ? 30cm AA5+
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?and
? ? ? ? ? 15cm AT5+
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and
? ? ? ? ? 15cm +1FF

Bio-Electirc Field: change to
3x AP 4+ / AT 5+ Ignore Cover (just to give it a different feel from the Spine Banks shooting attack).

Without adding anything this is what I would suggest.

I think the bio electric field should be FF only. ?possible +1 FF. ?It isn't that useful a weapon.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:35 am 
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Since I've not been watching the 'Nid list as closely as I've been watching the Tau list, I may have missed a few changes.  

However, a few things I'd like to see are the devourer-'Fex and Rag's Sniperfex (I either see 40k 'Fexii with a mass of devourers, Venomcannon/TL devourer, or rarely Venomcannon/ Barbed Strangler.)  It's been my experience in 40k that Carnifexii rarely get into close combat before turn 4, and usually aren't in combat until turn 5, while the shooty-Fexii are engaging as soon as turn 1 (in the event of a tactical mistake by the non-bug), usually turn 2, and doing a lot of damage in the process.

As far as the Zoanthropes go, I recommend Walker and a slight tweak to Ragnarok's suggestion.  Instead of an extra FF attack, just make the FF attack a Macro-weapon.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:21 am 
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Though I too would like to see the whole menagerie of fexes and tyrants including the devilrants and devilfexes as well as the siege fex

siegefex
Type /Speed /Armor /Close Combat /Firefight
AV /15cm /4+ /3+ /-
Weapons /Range /Firepower /Notes
crushing claws /(base contact) /+1 attack TK(1)
Notes: Fearless, Walker, Brood (3), Reinforced armour.

However such things will clutter the list with too much micro management and are best left for a collectors (well convertes) guide.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:24 am 
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Thanks for the feedback!

Gargoyles: Since Bio-Plasma is a double initiative weapon and currently only the Gargolyes have it, I still think a 6+ First Strike in base contact is appropriate for thier profile and does not throw them out of balance with the list.

Venom Cannons: if 2 shots is seen as a bad idea how about at least considering the twin-linked Going from AT 6+ to AT 5+?

Trygon: I really like Ragnorok's idea (better than mine!) how about:
Bio-Electric Field (15cm) (small arms) Ignore Cover

Zoanthrope:
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Light Vehicle / 15cm / 4+ / 6+ / 5+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Warp Blast / 30cm / AP 4+/AT 4+ and
                    30cm / AA 5+ and
                    (15cm) / (small arms) / Macro-Weapon
Notes: Walker, Brood (3)

Changes: added walker, 4+ save (for it's energy field) and a single FF 5+ MW attack (for it's deadly short-ranged Warp Blast profile)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:52 am 
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It's worth noting that the Gargoyle's Bio-Plasma attack is delivered at Inititive 6, the same inititive as a Genestealer (Which does get first strike in Epic). I think a first strike 6+ attack could be interesting.


A Carnifex's bio-plasma attack is delivered at Inititive 2 or 4, neither of which is fast enough to justify first strike.




Zoanthropes: FF MW could be nice, and walker is a must. Other than that, I'd stay away from changing their attack profile too much.



I think the Trygon's current WIP: - Bio-Electric Field  20cm  d3x AP3+/AT6+ /Ignore Cover   is fine.
Either D3 shooting attacks or an engagement, an interesting tactical proposition.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:07 pm 
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gargoyles: I don't think costs need to go up but Brood 2 would be a decent fix.

Zoeys and Fexes: at 35 they are a total bargain, maybe they all need to go to 45 points, they are hard to kill and so easy to respawn...

Trygons: just trying to get a feel for it really, seems like so much the same...let me give it some more thought.

BTW My Trygons always go for the Assault.  :angry:

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Chroma
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:38 pm 
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(epilgrim @ Sep. 19 2006,12:07)
QUOTE
Zoeys and Fexes: at 35 they are a total bargain, maybe they all need to go to 45 points, they are hard to kill and so easy to respawn...

"Easy to respawn"?  Do you have some kind of super-growth hormone for your Bugs, epilgrim?  :D

At Brood (3), I find Carnifex and Zoanthropes almost impossible to respawn in any reasonable amount.  In perfect conditions you could get three back with a Tyrant or Warrior, and that's using a Mycetic spore and being far from the enemy.  On average, I think you're getting back one, just one, a turn, considering failed spawning attempts as well.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Hena,

I thought Fexes had Spore Cysts...so there shouldn't be any conflict at present. Bio-Plasma for Gargoyles only w CC 6+ First Strike, Brood 2 20 points

The ablative use of fexes is why I suggested the Tyrant Guard, dedicated screeners, just as they have been in 40k for the last few years.

If we are going to use Raveners and such why not update therest of the list too and use the full range?

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epilgrim
 Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:34 pm 
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Chroma,

Yes I did say easy to respawn...just ask Moscovian! I went into turn three during our last game with no casualties! I had no Mycetic Spores either.

Three Tyrants and one Domina, thats a minimum of 10 spawning points a turn and the rally rolls are silly.

The dominatrix with her native 4 - 8 spawning value gets a lot done! so with a potential 20 points a turn (not inculding a possible 1 - 12 bonus for greater than 30cm) I was putting it all back as fast as he could kill it!

Admittedly on turn three I was getting shot up, put M was hard pressed and eventually lost on BTS and Blitz.

The only stuff that stayed dead was 4 stealers and 4 Lictors.

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