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Chaos titans
Heretic
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:31 pm 
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Going on the latest rules for chaos titans it looks like any warlord sized titan is a banelord (khorne). Do you think its likely that chaos titans will get an overhaul at some point in the future to provide more options? I'd really like to do some nurgle conversions on a couple of battered plastic warlords I have but it doesn't seem worth the effort if they're going to have to be counts as units for khorne units.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:46 pm 
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From the Black Legion 3.7 list:

The other Ruinous Powers are also known to create twisted versions of the Banelord as well. The Nurgle Plaguelord, Slaanesh Painlord and Tzeentch Warplord Titans are malevolent cousins to the Banelord, all built for the same dark purpose.


You can dedicate your "Banelord" Titan to any of the Chaos Powers, they just all have, in the Black Legion armylist, the same starts regardless of their Mark.

Some of the variant Chaos Marine army lists in the works have "Warlord-class" Titans that carry weapons specific to their Patron.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:02 pm 
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It's specifically noted in the BL list that you can make them any faction you wish:
The other Ruinous Powers are also known to create twisted versions of the Banelord as well. The Nurgle Plaguelord, Slaanesh Painlord and Tzeentch Warplord Titans are malevolent cousins to the Banelord, all built for the same dark purpose.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:32 pm 
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In the ThousandSons and Emperors hildren armylists there are god-specific Warlord-Class titans.

When my chaos-bitz arrive i will convert a Warlord into a Warplord for the ThousandSons armylist.

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tchristney
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:43 pm 
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Still, back in the day, chaos titans had a few "generic" chaos weapons like the various tails and the energy whip. The Banelord was an oddity and its deadly CC ability was countered by its inability to FF. To have all of the current set of chaos titans based on the Banelord kind of loses the flavour of the other chaos powers. I have some ideas to make titans more power specific:

Tzeentch: Extra void shield, lose 1 or 2 DC, long range beam weapons, short range flame weapons.

Slaanesh: Mid range weapons, 1 or 2 CC weapons.

Nurgle: Short range flame weapons, mid range barrage weapons, extra DC. Maybe 1 CC weapon.

Khorne: Minimum 2 CC weapons, short range high fire rate weapons, +2 DC, -1 void shield.

This is just off the top of my head. I don't have a feeling for the value of void shields vs. DC so the counts could well be off.
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:49 pm 
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(tchristney @ Sep. 12 2006,13:43)
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I don't have a feeling for the value of void shields vs. DC so the counts could well be off.

In general, I think void shields might be more valuable than DC, since you can repair them.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:57 pm 
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(tchristney @ Sep. 12 2006,13:43)
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Tzeentch: Extra void shield, lose 1 or 2 DC, long range beam weapons, short range flame weapons.

Slaanesh: Mid range weapons, 1 or 2 CC weapons.

Nurgle: Short range flame weapons, mid range barrage weapons, extra DC. Maybe 1 CC weapon.

Khorne: Minimum 2 CC weapons, short range high fire rate weapons, +2 DC, -1 void shield.

Well, as others have mentioned, Neal has rules for the Warplord in the Thousand Sons list here:
http://www.elisanet.fi/henrikk....WIP.pdf
Which has long ranged beam weapons and short ranged flame weapons... The Reaver and Warhound class variants are there too.

The Emperor's Children list also has a variant Warlord, and a Reaver variant which mirrors the Slaaneshi scout titans.
http://us.share.geocities.com/lordinq.....2b.pdf
The Painlord has devastating mid ranged weaponry and a CC weapon  :;):

I've been working on a Death Guard list here:
http://www.geocities.com/lordinquisitor ... d_v0.2.pdf
but with other things going on I've not done much with it for a while, suggestions for Plague Titans welcome.

If either of the above links doesn't work too good, try again later (having a lot of problems with Geocities as the free site bandwidth limit doesn't withstand much downloading of PDFs!)

Khorne I feel doesn't need a dedicated Titan - the Banelord is traditionally Khorne anyway.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:59 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Sep. 12 2006,13:49)
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In general, I think void shields might be more valuable than DC, since you can repair them.

Ah, but you don't get Armour saves versus Shield hits, and DC has other uses (more FF and CC attacks for starters!)
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:01 pm 
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(Lord Inquisitor @ Sep. 12 2006,13:59)
QUOTE

(Dwarf Supreme @ Sep. 12 2006,13:49)
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In general, I think void shields might be more valuable than DC, since you can repair them.

Ah, but you don't get Armour saves versus Shield hits, and DC has other uses (more FF and CC attacks for starters!)

Oh yeah, good point. I forgot about that.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:13 pm 
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DC is probably slightly better.  You get armor save and assault attacks.  However, Void Shields regenerate and block BMs.

For Orks, it's no contest since Powerfields don't regenerate.  DC is just plain better.  With  a void shield, though, it's tougher to tell.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:00 pm 
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My idea for the Plaguelord:

PLAGELORD WARLORD CLASS BATTLE TITAN

Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 2+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
2x Plague Mortar 60cm 3+D3BP Disrupt, Fixed Forward Arc
Rot Cannon 90cm AP3+/AT5+ Ignore Cover, Forward Arc
Wrecker (Base Contact) Assault Weapons Extra Attacks (+1), Titan Killer (D6), First Strike

Notes: 6 Void Shields. Damage Capacity 8. Walker. May step over unitsand impassable or dangerous terrain that is lower than the Titan?s knees and up to 2cm wide. Reinforced armour. Thick rear armour. Fearless. Nurgles Rot.
Critical Hit Effect: The Runes channelling the warp energy through the titan have been damaged. Roll 1D6 in the end phase of every turn: on a roll of 1 the overcome by the uncontrolled warp energy and explodes in a dramatic ball of pus and bacteria, on a roll of 2-3 the titan suffers one more point of damage, and on a roll of 4-6 the crew weaves new spells to compensate for the damage and there is no further trouble. If the titan explodes any units within 5cms of the titan will be hit on a roll of 4+.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:04 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Sep. 12 2006,15:02)
QUOTE
It's specifically noted in the BL list that you can make them any faction you wish:
The other Ruinous Powers are also known to create twisted versions of the Banelord as well. The Nurgle Plaguelord, Slaanesh Painlord and Tzeentch Warplord Titans are malevolent cousins to the Banelord, all built for the same dark purpose.

Painting your titan a different colour & giving it a mutated head doesn't give you rules that better represent your Titan's chosen deity.

It just gives you counts-as. :(



Chaos players are conversion-happy at the best of times... why not give them rules for the four basic Warlord Titans in the BL list, to allow conversions to be properly represented if they're not happy with only being allowed Khorne Warlords?


EDIT:

The BL list has another couple of months development grace now that Chaos' release has been delayed?




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CAL001
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:15 am 
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Why not corrupt the AMTL list and allow CSM armies to chose Titan weapon fits. As you said us chaos boys like to convert the buggery out of titans. I am working on a very large Chaos Titan Legion to supprt my Iron Warriors and would like to see some freedom in the list to use variant titans. Maybe write the Chaos Titan Legion list without any Auxillery formations, except Knights( thinking of you Slaneesh boys out there), however allow them to take inkantry support from CSM or LATD list. Add limitation like, 0-2 CSM Retinue and limt the upgrades, additions that can be added to the Retinues. For LATD, limit inf formations to 0-3.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:52 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 12 2006,21:04)
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Painting your titan a different colour & giving it a mutated head doesn't give you rules that better represent your Titan's chosen deity.

It just gives you counts-as. :(

Yeah, but that wasn't the question.  The OP was confused over whether every Warlord Titan had to be Khorne faction.  I addressed that.  Despite the name it can be made any faction.

Chaos players are conversion-happy at the best of times... why not give them rules for the four basic Warlord Titans in the BL list, to allow conversions to be properly represented if they're not happy with only being allowed Khorne Warlords?


As noted, they are allowed to take Warlords from any faction, not just Khorne.

As to a single weapon load, it's for the same reason that Imperial players are restricted to one weapon load.  It's just simpler to deal with.

It's a Black Legion list.  It's not supposed to represent the full variety of Chaos Marine forces.  It's mostly supposed to be Undivided and shouldn't be bogged down with a bunch of deity-specific units.  Besides, BL has a ton of other big WE toys to play with even without including mark-specific titans.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:59 pm 
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(CAL001 @ Sep. 13 2006,00:15)
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Why not corrupt the AMTL list and allow CSM armies to chose Titan weapon fits.

It's not done for the same reason that IG and SM don't get to freely choose their titan weapon fits.

Choosing titan weapon fits makes it very easy to min-max army selection by choosing titan weapons that specifically fill holes in the core army's abilities.  The obvious example would be a titan assigned to SMs being heavy on TK weapons.  The limited choice on weapon specialization is actually an additional de facto restriction beyond the "1/3 points" limit.

That limitation is not needed in a titan-heavy force like the AMTL list because the benefits of open selection are (theoretically) offset by the inherent limitations of having a force composed of titans.

Personally, I don't have a problem with allowing weapon choices in friendly games and would allow an opponent to do it but balancing it for a tournament is a different matter.

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