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tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

Not sure if there are any SST fans and if there are propably are aware of it anyway but:

The announcement

To put it short Mongoose is going to release not only battlefield: evolutions(game set for roughly 5-10 years from now with state-of-the-art weapon systems and based on SST rules) but also SST: evolutions next year(battlefield first, SST on april). SST rules have been streamlined to be cleaner rules allowing same depth with additional rules added in(like suppression. I like sound of that!) with...PRE-PAINTED models. And looking at the pictures actually quite good looking pre-painted models.

What's even better is that they also should be reasonably easy to paint over so those who like to paint their stuff can just paint over. And top of that price's won't be hiking(indeed ripplers target price will be actually cheaper than it currently is...). Hey hoorayh!

While I'm not interested in pre-painted stuff(I like painting) I can certainly appreciate the idea of having easier time to attract players to this great game(my 2nd favourite after epic). And if they later want to paint they have models ready so they can just buy the paints and paint them :laugh:

.

Not like there's not BAD sides as well. There's going to be wait around until april before anything comes

but atleast after that stuff is getting released at fast pace(with long-waited aircraft at the forefront. Huzah!).

Only problem I have with this is: I had planned to build Forth army for the SST while in England(since no epic chaos coming) but now first of Forth will be released at the april. Bummer. Well guess that means I could start working with SST marauder&exo-suit platoons(it's not like these new models will invalidate them. Infact you can still order old models. Want metal grizzly suits instead of plastic pre-painted ones? No problem! Same price!) in the meantime.

But overall rather interesting course SST is taking. Wondering if GW will eventually go this route as well.

Cuban Commissar · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:07 pm

ok so here are my questions

what is the scale of the modern game? SST is about 30mm

Will the SST trooper minis now be pre-painted?

Evil and Chaos · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:13 pm

The modern game is supposedly compatable with SST, so 30mm.

Which makes those tank prototype models pretty damned huge!

Pipboy · **Joined:** Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:19 pm **Posts:** 96

Wow, those are some pretty bold announcements! I have to admit that I'm a litte sceptical that they will be able to consistently produce paint jobs to the quality they are promising. I'm lookig forward to some releases as I have been eyeing this system as a cost effective alternative to 40K.

Anyone have some feedback on the system?

tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

(Pipboy @ Aug. 30 2006,05:19)

QUOTE

Anyone have some feedback on the system?

SST? Well I'm not exactly most objective person(being fan of said game :laugh:

) but IMO it beats 40k easily if you are looking for challenging game to play where army list/first turn combination isn't most important aspect in deciding who wins it.

Let's see what I like about game:

-Invidual models have different unit speeds(so fast bug is truly going to outrun MI troopper trying to run with his feet away)
-Reaction system ensures that a) you won't be able to sneak up into combat without other having to do anything with him. If you complete action within 10" opponent gets to react. Standard reaction is shoot but different races have special reactions as well(MI can move away or if certain requirements are met enter ready stage, arachnids have charge and alarm screech that will be moving a lot of nearby bugs toward enemy etc). This will also result in that once things get up close and personal it will also get very, VERY bloody very very quickly.

-Easy characteristic system for weapons that still allows wide variety of weapons with nice variety of weapons.
-Very fast-paced game where things turn in their head very, very quickly if you make mistakes. Also good system for mega battles(partially due to reaction system. Opponent isn't going to just sit bored for whole turn). Game turns also flow fast.

-Each army has distinct character and playing style. Try playing bugs MI style or MI arachnids style and you'll get screwed :laugh:

-It also includes stuff like aircraft, cruise missiles, NUKES and whatnot easily.

ONLY part of rules I DON'T like is terrain/cover as those are big mess but guess what? Those are cleared up on the new rules(which are basicly old rules cleaned up so they are even less ambiquotity). Bless Mongoose!

And if you want cheap armies look for MI. You can get practically any platoon(barring lightly armoured. Those need lot more models being cheapest of MI

) into 2000pts for ~100e. My tournament army for example could be bought for 115e in the MORE expensive way...(buying cap trooppers invidually rather than buying starters sets with arachnid player. You get 25% discount on cap trooppers/arachnid warriors+2 extra warriors if you are willing to take rulebook and extra templates along it :laugh:

).

But that's just my not-so-objective view.

tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

(Cuban Commissar @ Aug. 29 2006,22:07)

QUOTE

ok so here are my questions

what is the scale of the modern game? SST is about 30mm

Will the SST trooper minis now be pre-painted?

Both games are 30mm. Also the rules are practically same so if you are really insane you could have US marines fighting arachnid warriors :laugh:

.

SST troopper minis will in future be pre-painted though if you can repaint over them easily(as Matt has stated) that shouldn't be problem. More of problem is if you are fan of metal models as this move will _kill_ metal releases. Apart from old models(which will be available for order if you want) there won't be any metals in the SST system.

CyberShadow · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:45 am

And, to counter that, someone who does not like the game...

I have the rulebook but not been inspired enough to sit down with it.

In its defence, it is a clean set of rules. Well thought out and laid out, easy to understand.

I like the reaction aspect, and 'pushing back' is a great concept (enemy models that survive get pushed back an inch - called flinching).

I dont like the fire rules (squads mass fire into a set point, meaning that it seems difficult to take out hordes of enemy troops).

Overall, I find the rules a little bland, and difficult to create two different forces from the same list (however, I dont have a lot of experience with the game).

Feel free to ask any questions about it.

blackhorizon · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:47 am

Did Andy Chambers help on these new editions, since he 'created' the rules?

tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

(CyberShadow @ Aug. 30 2006,09:45)

QUOTE

I dont like the fire rules (squads mass fire into a set point, meaning that it seems difficult to take out hordes of enemy troops).

Overall, I find the rules a little bland, and difficult to create two different forces from the same list (however, I dont have a lot of experience with the game).

Well to counter this:

Most of the weapons either tend to be powerfull guns against invidual target or if good against horde have auto trait which gives you 6" fire zone. That's in general big enough that you run out of shots before you run out of targets most of the time! I haven't ever had much of problem with that so far. Even when facing 15 strong arachnid warrior units.

In addition if you HAVE managed to cram enough dices into your attack(maybe squad of 5 grizzlies with 2 sixguns each might do the trick. That's 30 d6+1 attacks afterall. That's pushing even auto trait to it's limit :laugh:

) you can create multiple fire zones(splitting fire in other words) so you can spread the fire(very handy for LAMI who don't have auto on their moritas and have BIG squads) among the big swarm(or aim at completely new target if you feel like. Shoot moritas at those warriors and your missile launchers against that big bad tanker bug coming your way for example).

As for different forces: You got to be kidding?-) Arachnids for example have so much different stuff that having great variety is pretty easy(though if you haven't checked ARMY BOOKS I'm sure it can look like it. Those lists in main rulebook are...Well like the army lists in the 3rd edition of 40k rulebook. Basic lists to get you working). I have enough models to squeeze 2000 pts arachnid host and without having much of models I can create 2-3 different feeling lists by changing upgrades and assets. With same models! Okay maybe 3 is bit pushing it(I have only limited amount of models afterall! Barely enough for 2k list. But then again I have only used 5/21 of different arachnid units in the arachnid army book and only few of the available assets). Start adding mantis hunters, king tankers, overseer or brain bug, aircraft etc and you'll start to find multiple different combinations you could try.

MI's have multiple different platoons(cap, marauder, LAMI, exosuit, pathfinder...) to mix&match and lots and lots of choises. Again army book widened their choises immensely.

And skinnies. Well their army book has practically 6 army lists crammed into one book. Each with own feel and playstyle.

But if you only have read rulebook I can understand why you feel like it. You haven't seen FULL options

BTW. I played MI vs MI game in ropecon. We had 2 quite different MI armies

tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

(blackhorizon @ Aug. 30 2006,09:47)

QUOTE

Did Andy Chambers help on these new editions, since he 'created' the rules?

Odds are no(since he's now working with computer games) but since rules weren't really changed but just cleaned up so they are still basicly same rules. Reactions, fire zones, flinching. It's all there just like before.

Just worded better

CyberShadow · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:34 am

(tneva82 @ Aug. 30 2006,10:21)

QUOTE

As for different forces: You got to be kidding?-) Arachnids for example have so much different stuff that having great variety is pretty easy(though if you haven't checked ARMY BOOKS I'm sure it can look like it. Those lists in main rulebook are...Well like the army lists in the 3rd edition of 40k rulebook. Basic lists to get you working). I have enough models to squeeze 2000 pts arachnid host and without having much of models I can create 2-3 different feeling lists by changing upgrades and assets. With same models!

...

But if you only have read rulebook I can understand why you feel like it. You haven't seen FULL options

I stand corrected. I only have the core rule book, and I guess that it is a little unfair to judge the lists on this alone. However, in terms of minis, only the Forth list has come close to interesting me so far.

I guess that it just comes down to the fact that the game is just not for me.

tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

(CyberShadow @ Aug. 30 2006,10:34)

QUOTE

I stand corrected. I only have the core rule book, and I guess that it is a little unfair to judge the lists on this alone. However, in terms of minis, only the Forth list has come close to interesting me so far.

I guess that it just comes down to the fact that the game is just not for me.

Jep. If you haven't seen army books(arachnids for example have 21 unit choises and more psychic powers and assets than main rulebook has. MI has similary expanded(if not more) though some of their stuff(LAMI and pathfinders) are in their own books.

However if you don't like the minis then you don't like the minis and then it's probably not game to you. But each to his own. We have this little thing called freedom of choise :laugh:

.

But what's so bad for example with exo-suits?-) Bigger and badder than terminators(50% taller than the old terminators. Dunno about new ones). They have size and looks for my taste

(indeed exo-suits caused quite a bunch of players to convert to the game. Especially SST book fans since these are most true-to-the-book version of MI).

Mojarn Piett · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:06 am

(CyberShadow @ Aug. 30 2006,09:45)

QUOTE

And, to counter that, someone who does not like the game...

I have the rulebook but not been inspired enough to sit down with it.

In its defence, it is a clean set of rules. Well thought out and laid out, easy to understand.

I like the reaction aspect, and 'pushing back' is a great concept (enemy models that survive get pushed back an inch - called flinching).

I dont like the fire rules (squads mass fire into a set point, meaning that it seems difficult to take out hordes of enemy troops).

Overall, I find the rules a little bland, and difficult to create two different forces from the same list (however, I dont have a lot of experience with the game).

Feel free to ask any questions about it.

You pretty much summed up my feelings. I'd just add two peevees.

1) No morale rules. This I can somewhat understand as bugs probably would require a system different from everybody else. But still.

2) Cohesion rules, and this is the big one. If a soldier is outside of command range he just stands there, presumably with a stupid look on his face and arms hanging limply, until his WHOLE SQUAD comes back to fetch him. I mean, even 3-year old KIDS can run to catch their family if they've fallen behind...

Then again, if "gentry" means the gents of the land then what does that make "infantry"...? :laugh:

tneva82 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm **Posts:** 606

(Mojarn Piett @ Aug. 30 2006,11:06)

QUOTE

1) No morale rules. This I can somewhat understand as bugs probably would require a system different from everybody else. But still.

2) Cohesion rules, and this is the big one. If a soldier is outside of command range he just stands there, presumably with a stupid look on his face and arms hanging limply, until his WHOLE SQUAD comes back to fetch him. I mean, even 3-year old KIDS can run to catch their family if they've fallen behind...

1) Well suppression is coming to game in new "edition" so that shouldn't be problem. Also flincing(and also to an extend rules on being out of range).

2) To counter that you have officers

Apart from simply taking command of nearby out-of-command units he can promote models who are out of command and thus get them working. So instead of having your lietnaunts fighting at front lines in most unrealistic manner(no 40k sword fighting here!) you have them ensuring that squads keep acting in case they lose their squad leaders(which accounts for 99% times you'll find trooppers out of command ranges. Since you aren't allowed to leave models out of command range odds it's dirt easy to ensure that as long as squad leaders are alive you are in command range.).

I prefer such officers than having them as great heroes hacking basic trooppers with ease in close combat. In real life are officers really that much better soldiers or are they officers because of their ability to LEAD?-)

Mojarn Piett · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:36 am

Problem still is, if a _single_ soldier is out of command _whole_ squad has to go get him. The leader to rewind his spring (i.e. to get the poor soul back into command range) and the rest of the squad just to stay in commad range.

Instead of having the OOC model run back to the squad until he's back in commad which wold be far more logical. At lest that's what I would do but the again, I always got to the bad side of our V??peli when in SA-INT because I tended to use my head.

Where you got the notion that I don't want my officers/NCOs to lead but tobe superheroes I have no idea.

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