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If they switched back to infantry, I would start using them in test without the Orca.
Reason,
1) They wouldn't die rediculously easy
- AT fire and AP fire suseptability means there isn't a unit in the enemy army that can't hurt my BS
- BS are supposed to be my most stalwart and heaviest of infantry?
- these guys are supposed to shrug fire off like obliterators and terminators?
2) BS would be able to go into buildings, as they do in design, fluff, and 40K
- pg. 18, vehicles don't enter buildings
3) BS would be able to utilize fortified bunkers and fortified buildings as they do in design, fluff, and 40K
- units in fortications ignore -1 to armor from crossfire
- units in fortications gain a -1 to be hit
- INFANTRY in fortications get a 3+ cover save
- pg. 18, vehicles don't enter fortifications UNLESS its specifically deisgned for a vehicle
4) BS would be able to move through Jungle as all infantry can as as they can in core design
- pg. 18, jungle is impassible to vehicles
5) They'd be able to ruins, rubble, and Forest without dieing, something they commonly use in core design, fluff and 40K.
- with walker, you still have a chance to dieing
- this is laughable, broadsides have more suspensers and balancing systems comparable with terminators. ?
- Entering a ruin can - kill them? LOL
- BS should be able to gain use of the cover save as they are indeed infantry, they get it in the other system, and its part of their patient hunter attacking concept.
- BS make great use of cover, get high up in dug in positions to hammer the enemy from treeline, ruin or whatever.
- page 18
6) BS would be able to move into river water features, like all infantry can
- vehicles don't go into water so well in E:A.
- infantry go through water regularly
- same page 18
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Their COST are another matter entirely, current feelings of being overpriced _may_ change once they can stick around a bit longer - like they do in description, fiction, and in 40K field. They may also become valuable again to a E:A Tau player like they are in Core Design when they can be viably be deployed straight away as infantry or from orca - as they commonly are in 40K.
+ + +
BTW:
I concur with the "over 7' tall" as the current Marine standard in fluff.
I agree, Terminators are taller than Marines in fluff.
I agree, 40K marine and terminator models are undersized by Studio's own admission.
I've noted before in threads long lost - measurements of crisis and broadsides are actually just about the same height per IA3 datasheets and 40K actual model representation and FW epic model representation.
Latest termy bases are now the same size as crisis / broadside bases.
Locally, we've tested numerous games locally in the past when this issue came up and CS drew a line in the sand to just quell the debates... Tau BS work as infantry. Opponents even said they expected them to be infantry - as we all play 40K and know how they work in that game and in franchise fluff.
+ + +
Fact:
In our local non-test games, we think BS as LV are absurd. Players of Tau and opponent's alike. That's easily because we have been fielding them in 40K as infantry since inception and are all old gamers from rogue trader days realizing what marines/terminators are as well as what tau crisis/broadsides are. We realize that they are Infantry in core design. Moreover - ever since the debate came up a long time ago on the old epicomms forum, we realized there was no balance problem with them as infantry then.
So I litterally have 10's of games under my belt with Tau BS as Infantry (matching what they are in core design), and know for a fact that it doesn't cause a balance problem at all.
I quit reporting it here because the nay-sayer opposition earned our champion's sympathetic ear until 'further testing' could be generated by CS. Which even at the time, it was unwarranted - but it allowed cooler heads to prevail and we all were able to move on with getting at least crisis as infantry at the time. Heh, and that has caused _no_ problems with balance what so ever.
To me, CS knows the *only* issue with making BS infantry. Those that don't really understand what a broadside unit really is are the only ones that really have a problem with them being infantry. That is NOT a reason to NOT to make them what they are.
The facts are there, the stats are there. The fluff is there. The core design rules are there. The actual in game comp's are there.
A unit of 3 broadsides and 2-6 shield drones are more stable and stalwart than a unit of 5 terminators any day of the week. The broadsides have more wounds and can endure more lascannon or small arms fire than the terminators. There is no significant E:A scale differences in height between units.
There is *zero* game play stats to show that broadsides as infantry have caused a problem. Not_a_single_game.
These are just the facts as I understand them.
I hate this topic as it makes no sense to me. ?I already feel my temper rising - so, I need to let this issue go and let you guys sort this one out.
After all - its just a game.
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Rob
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I really dont want to reopen the LV debate at this point. I am not closed to these calls, but the issue is split fairly evenly in support.