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Tiding from SG about epic
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:49 pm 
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Hi Iain & Gang,


(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 15 2006,16:01)
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Of course that might be Gw's biggest fallacy: that money spent on SG = less money spent on core games. The only money GW gets from me is for Epic and I'm sure I'm not alone in this respect.


Same here. The only time I spend anything on non-Epic products is to buy bitz for MY Epic products! :)


(CyberShadow @ Aug. 15 2006,17:59)
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Unfortunately, in some respects, they may be correct about that fact. Has anyone checked out Pixelgeek's blog recently...


I keep up with Pixelgeek...

http://crusades.blogspot.com/

He not only keeps a personal blog, but a gaming industry news blog that is very cool.

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/

He's a good guy once you get to know him.


(CyberShadow @ Aug. 15 2006,17:59)
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...or Jimbos? :(


I have a harder time keeping up with Jimbo...

His blog appears to be Apple/Macintosh designed and most of the time the graphics won't download for me.


(CyberShadow @ Aug. 15 2006,17:59)
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I am not targetting these guys, but we all like the background and hate the way that Epic is marketted. I just don't think that it is a total fallacy that reduced Epic sales lead to increased 40K sales.


I agree.

More 28mm 40k sales DOES NOT mean less Epic-Armageddon sales!

And vice-versa...

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:39 pm 
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Hi!

Great looking ork army!

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:43 pm 
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(tneva82 @ Aug. 15 2006,09:55)
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(Denis @ Aug. 15 2006,03:48)
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Marketing wise, it's a disaster. I can't comprehend that GW can't apply the marketing tactics they've used all these years to sell minis for the Epic range.

What? To take money from FB/40k/LOTR to epic or other SG games? They don't want that. Better that money is spent on FB/40k/lotr.

Hi!

I would like to remind everyone that once upon a time epic was a solid core game with sale around 9%. Not as fabulous as 40k or Fantasy, but money was made in order of magnitudes more than now.

The notion that crippling specialist games somehow boosts 40k and fantasy sales is one I have yet to see any compelling evidence to substantiate.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:00 am 
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(tneva82 @ Aug. 15 2006,11:53)
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 15 2006,16:01)
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Of course that might be Gw's biggest fallacy: that money spent on SG = less money spent on core games. The only money GW gets from me is for Epic and I'm sure I'm not alone in this respect.

But are there enough epic only buyers to compensate extra resources spent or will enough buy FB/40k models that they combined with less resources spent on supporting game means bigger profit margins?

And of course: They are not looking for old gamers. They are looking at getting new player in and have him buy certain amount of money and then that player has served his purpose. We old veterans demanding epic goodies don't fit well into that plan :-(

Hi!

Nowadays? Most probably not.

But thats their fault they HAD such a customer base BEFORE epic 40k and killed it.

You cant expect to resurrect the dead with half hearted marketing schemes....

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:08 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Aug. 15 2006,12:59)
QUOTE

(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 15 2006,16:01)
QUOTE
Of course that might be Gw's biggest fallacy: that money spent on SG = less money spent on core games. The only money GW gets from me is for Epic and I'm sure I'm not alone in this respect.

Unfortunately, in some respects, they may be correct about that fact. Has anyone checked out pixelgeeks blog recently... or Jimbos? :(

I am not targetting these guys, but we all like the background and hate the way that Epic is marketted. I just dont think that it is a total fallacy that reduced Epic sales lead to increased 40K sales.

Hi!

Unless someone has some hard data on this I find it dubious. Anecdotally, I find more people that were epic fans no longer play any GW game than those who now play 40k or fantasy.

I remember the retailer info before epic 40k was released (via the then new conventions for retailers in the US, dont know if they still do those today). GW's suposed goal with revamping the epic game was to increase epics share of the total GW sales. I heard they were shooting for around 15% (about an increase of 5-6% over what they had). Of course they wound up with virtually zero, losing even what they had.

I just dont beleive that strong epic sales mean less sales for the other core games. In fact as a former retailer I remember being able to increase sales by getting players involves in multiple systems.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:09 am 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 15 2006,13:56)
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(CyberShadow @ Aug. 15 2006,12:59)
QUOTE

(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 15 2006,16:01)
QUOTE
Of course that might be Gw's biggest fallacy: that money spent on SG = less money spent on core games. The only money GW gets from me is for Epic and I'm sure I'm not alone in this respect.

Unfortunately, in some respects, they may be correct about that fact. Has anyone checked out pixelgeeks blog recently... or Jimbos? :(

I am not targetting these guys, but we all like the background and hate the way that Epic is marketted. I just dont think that it is a total fallacy that reduced Epic sales lead to increased 40K sales.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was a total fallacy. I merely wanted to point out that not all Epic players will buy other GW products when Epic is unavailable.

Hi!

I agree. In fact most hard core epic fans I used to know now play NO GW game at all.....

Primarch

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tneva82
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:29 am 
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(primarch @ Aug. 15 2006,23:43)
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I would like to remind everyone that once upon a time epic was a solid core game with sale around 9%. Not as fabulous as 40k or Fantasy, but money was made in order of magnitudes more than now.

So? It's still one extra game to support which takes up resources. For GW less games they have to support to archieve sale X the better. Less resources=bigger profits.

If they supported 10 games fully their profit line would drop which is what they don't want to do. Not to mention their target group(young kids) aren't exactly best target for SG games...

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tneva82
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:32 am 
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(primarch @ Aug. 16 2006,00:00)
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Nowadays? Most probably not.

But thats their fault they HAD such a customer base BEFORE epic 40k and killed it.

You cant expect to resurrect the dead with half hearted marketing schemes....

Primarch

But did they lose all of those customers when they killed epic?

NO!

Lot(probably most) moved on to other GW games. And since they now saved up on resources that would compensate for the few that dropped out of buying GW stuff.

They aren't TRYING to resurrect epic. They are trying to get as much money out of us as they can with minimal resources spent as that means bigger profit margins. Just in case you don't know: Profits are what GW are after.

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:02 pm 
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do you have anything, any type of evidence that shows that most of the gamers GW lost when epic went unsupported actually switched over to GWs other games? I've never seen any type of evidence of this anywhere. I do know some gamers like myself who where already playing multible GW games, 40K, Warhammer, Space Hulk, Epic, Necromunda, etc., etc., that kept playing the other games, but I dont know anyone who was only playing epic and then when support was droped picked up, 40k, or one of their other games. and If anything I scaled my other GW purchases back as the loss of support for Epic was disheartening and I found I didnt have as much excitement regarding GW as a whole, it wasnt much longer before I stoped playing Warhammer Fantasy as well. and while thats just me, I havent ever seen any hard evidence that Epics fans suddenly all moved on to 40K, if this type of marketing really did work so well, GW would only have one game line at this point.

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Maybe it is just the crony in me...but I wouldnt spend a frippin cent on GW products if not for Epic.  If they stopped selling every model and book tommorow, I would spend my money with another company.  I guess you could call that the 'annoyance' factor- the point where the dislike of a company's practices outweighs the desire for product.

Or, maybe I'm just crazy.  :p


ib

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:57 pm 
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(tneva82 @ Aug. 16 2006,06:32)
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(primarch @ Aug. 16 2006,00:00)
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Nowadays? Most probably not.

But thats their fault they HAD such a customer base BEFORE epic 40k and killed it.

You cant expect to resurrect the dead with half hearted marketing schemes....

Primarch

But did they lose all of those customers when they killed epic?

NO!

Lot(probably most) moved on to other GW games.

I really don't think this is true. I don't know of a single epic player who started playing another GW game when E40k was canned. They might have returned to playing other GW games, but none that I know of decided to start playing 40k.




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Bombot
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:25 pm 
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Really, I think all this discussion of what fans went where is fairly moot.  I don?t believe GW ever took an axe to Epic with the specific hope that Epic gamers would go to 40k.  More like the main line games were understaffed (40k fans also seem to complain about a lack of support) and they dragged in Jervis from SG (to do what I do not know), keeping the SG games running on the bare minimum.

The collapse of the Epic fanbase is thanks to the unfortunate outcome of releasing Epic 40k, which we and GW can all feel a little aggrieved by seeing as it seemed popular enough as Battlefleet Gothic.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:28 pm 
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(iblisdrax @ Aug. 16 2006,09:15)
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Maybe it is just the crony in me...but I wouldnt spend a frippin cent on GW products if not for Epic.

Same here.

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tneva82
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:30 pm 
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(Grimshawl @ Aug. 16 2006,14:02)
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do you have anything, any type of evidence that shows that most of the gamers GW lost when epic went unsupported actually switched over to GWs other games?

I know many of GW gamers play many of their games at once.

You have any evidence people just stopped buying GW stuff when they killed epic?

And yes I have evidence. The fact GW hasn't reversed it. If it would be better for their profit margin to support SG they would do it. They aren't idiots. They just are after profit margin. Something folks here aren't interested at.

Stone cold fact is GW can get bigger profit margin by reducing epic support to bare minimum and concentrating on core 3 games and to hell few epic gamers who don't buy more GW games. They are just tip of the iceberg. Resources spent on elsewhere will bring bigger profit margins. All epic needs to be brought into GW number 1 game is that it would bring out biggest profits but since it doesn't: Bare minimum. Least they can get so that few loyal fans still buy epic models. Maximum profits that way.

Sad but true.




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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:11 pm 
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the fact they havent reversed their trend of not supporting Epic is not hard evidence that epic players did or did not take up other GW games.
I do know 4 epic gamers who quit buying GW's products and withen a short time stoped playing GW games after epic became unsupported, while I dont think this fact proves conclusively that I am right, it is more evidence than you seem to have put forward.
their names are Chad Porter, Shawn Bailey, Jamie Johnson, and Fred Coventry. Their are several others I dont know as well as these four that I beleive did the same thing, but since I dont know for sure I wont put them forward here as examples.
anyway I do conceed that GW is going to do whatever they want to, I just dont agree that whatever they do is obviously the right decision or even the most profitable one either.




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