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Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
Ilushia
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:57 am 
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I might also suggest making the ripper tentacles be +3 EA, maybe +D3 EA MW. As it stands I see comparatively little reason to take them over the claws. Sure they're potentially better against infantry.. But they're always worse against RA. 1/3 times they're worse against 4+ normal armor and 1/3 times they tie against 4+ normal armor... Making them +4 normal attacks or +3 MW attacks would work better, I think. Keeping with the style that they get fewer attacks then comparative Imperial titans, but are comperable in power per attack.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:18 am 
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I wanted to stay away from MW attacks for the Tentacles, specifically to make them more attractive against infantry, but less interesting to those who want to attack more heavily armoured targets.

How about making the tentacles D3(+2) EA?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:26 am 
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New Page Collation:


- Scythed Hierodule (125pts):
- Speed20cm / Armour 4+ RA / DC 3 / CC3+ / FF5+
- Acid Spray /15cm / AP2+/AT6+ / Ignore Cover
- Huge Scything Talons: +2 MW TK(1) CC attacks.


- Barbed Hierodule (125pts):
- Speed 20cm / Armour 4+ RA/ DC 3 / CC5+ / FF4+
- Twin-Linked Bio Cannon 2x / 45cm / AP3+/AT4+ / Ignore Cover


- Trygon (125pts):
- Speed 15cm / DC 3 / Armour 3+  / CC 3+ / FF 6+
- Large Scything Talons: +2 MW CC attacks.
- Bio-Electric field / D3 shots /20cm / AP3+/AT6+ / Ignore Cover
- Invulnerable Save, Infiltrate.


- Harridan (225pts):
- Speed 35cm / DC 3 / Armour 5+ RA / CC4+ / FF5+
- Twin-Linked Bio Cannon 2x / 45cm / AP3+/AT4+ / Ignore Cover
- Large Scything Talons: +2 MW CC attacks.


- Vituraptor (325pts):
- Speed 30cm / DC 4 / Armour 4+ RA / CC 4+ / FF 4+
- 2x Bio Cannons 2x / 45cm / AP4+/AT5+ / Ignore Cover
- Spore Cannon /Template / AP5+/AA5+ /Ignore Cover
- 2x Monstrous Claws - +1EA TK (d3)


- Hierophant (250pts):
- Speed 25cm / DC 6 / Armour 4+ RA / CC 3+ / FF 5+
- Huge Scything Talons: +2 MW TK(1) CC attacks.
Additionally, the Hierophant must select two weapons biomorphs from the Bio-Titans biomorphs list.


- Hydraphant (350pts):
- Speed 25cm / DC 8 / Armour 4+ RA / CC 3+ / FF 5+
- Huge Scything Talons: +2 MW TK(1) CC attacks.
- Warp Blast /30cm /AP4+ AT4+ AA5+
- Bio-Plasmic Breath /Template /MW 5+ /Ignore Cover
Additionally, the Hierophant must select two weapons biomorphs from the Bio-Titans biomorphs list.



Bio-Titan weapons biomorphs:

- Bio Cannon 2x / 45cm / AP4+/AT5+ / Ignore Cover
- Ripper Tentacles - Extra Attacks (d3+2)
- Monstrous Claws - +1EA TK (d3)
- Pyro-Acidic Spray - Template, AP3+/AT6+ Ignores Cover


Dominatrix (500 pts)
- Speed 25cm / DC 8 / 4+ RA  / CC 3+ / FF 5+
- Large Warp Blast / 30cm / MW 4+ / MWAA 4+
- Bio Cannon 2x / 45cm / AP4+/AT5+ / Ignore Cover
- 2x Monstrous Claws - +1EA TK (d3)
- Smite


Changes:

- Dominatrix gains AAMW 4+
- Pyro-Acidic spray changed to AP3+ due to double-templates now being far less useful.
- Changed Ripper Tentacles from d3 to (d3+2)
- Trygon & Hierodule movement rates modified.


Current talking points:

- Templates
- Ripper Tentacles (Would d6 be more interesting than d3+2?)
- Points costs.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:39 pm 
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I've a couple of thoughts on the bio-titans from my latest game.

First, the Bio Cannon is underpowered, and should be upgraded thusly:

- Bio Cannon 2x / 45cm / AP3+/AT4+ / Ignore Cover


Secondly, the Dominatrix is overpriced / underpowered, and should be reduced to 400 points.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:16 am 
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I'd be OK with the bio-titan acid being MW 5+. I'd rather not see the 'lesser' nid creatures go to being MW again... Having MW shooting attacks is useful and I'd be OK with it in specific conditions, but I'd rather avoid seeing tons and tons of MW shots, even at 5+, in an army like Tyranids which is (Theoretically at least) supposed to be very assault-oriented and has a lot of MW melee-attacks as well.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:51 am 
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Just add the breath back to dominatrix.


We've been asked to reduce the number of Template attacks.


Also I would like to change that acid spray back to MW5+.

You mean the teamplate attack?

MW template attacks are akin to nuclear weapons. No wonder the Dominatrix is overpriced now.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:53 am 
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(Ilushia @ Aug. 07 2006,04:16)
QUOTE
I'd be OK with the bio-titan acid being MW 5+. I'd rather not see the 'lesser' nid creatures go to being MW again... Having MW shooting attacks is useful and I'd be OK with it in specific conditions, but I'd rather avoid seeing tons and tons of MW shots, even at 5+, in an army like Tyranids which is (Theoretically at least) supposed to be very assault-oriented and has a lot of MW melee-attacks as well.

The problem is that the current list is actually a very strong shooting list due to all the MW's /  templates. We need to find the balance of the list, increasing its assault capability if we have to.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:06 am 
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I think what we are forgetting is how nid specialise against certain targets.  It is only rarely (synpase creatures) that you get something to multitask.

If you read the attack on Gryphonne IV we attacked the Skitarri with brood creatures, the paertorains with bigger things and the titans with our own titans.  Each creature is designed to combat a certain threat.

This is seen in 40K where fexi are designed to shoot or kill in close comvat.  It is very rare for them to be good at both.

What I think we should do, is go though the list and label each BWE with its task, and from their develope its weapons load.  It might mean that we start suffering from the lictor debacle (ie they have no FF ability) but if it makes them cheaper then I'm all for it.

Scythed Hierodule
Line breaker, a few very powerful attacks and dead scary (inspiring?)

Barbed Hierodule
supportive fire, very poor close combat ability

Trygon
Incerdible fast shock troop.  strong vs massed infantry, weak vs tanks


Harridan
Kind of an all rounder. mainly desinged as a larger harasment creature and brood mother for gargoyles

Vituraptor
Not sure about this baby.  It is new.

Hierophant
Multitask, high speed line breaker

Hydraphant
I see this guy as our main anti titan unit.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:40 pm 
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Meant the acid spray on hierodule and haruspex.


Strength 5 AP3 does not justify MW status, IMHO.



Ragnarok, here are the cannon super-heavies and their roles in 40k.


Scythed Hierodule - As you say, a powerful line breaker, with a good anti-personel acid spray.

Barbed Hierodule - Very good supporting fire, it also has a moderate ammount of S10 CC attacks, certainly not to be trifled with.

Trygon - A very fast (for its size) superheavy, strong versus both infantry & tanks (Damages Land Raiders on a 4 on 2d6).

Harridan - Again as you say, a very flexible beast, with a significant transport capacity.

Hierophant - Multi-task with an emphasis on CC ability.



Now, how I see the new Bio-Titans:


Vituraptor - SuperHeavy flier, somewhat like a Dominatrix of the skies. Note: AFAIK there is no model for this unit planned?

Hydraphant - A walking vision of hell! This is the only beast out there that should keep the MW5+ breath weapon. The model for this can be the old E:40k model, since the new Hierophant will be somewhat smaller and slender looking.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:53 pm 
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I wasn't using 40k as base.


I know, but that's the cannon.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:21 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 07 2006,12:40)
QUOTE

Ragnarok, here are the cannon super-heavies and their roles in 40k.


Scythed Hierodule - As you say, a powerful line breaker, with a good anti-personel acid spray.

Barbed Hierodule - Very good supporting fire, it also has a moderate ammount of S10 CC attacks, certainly not to be trifled with.

Trygon - A very fast (for its size) superheavy, strong versus both infantry & tanks (Damages Land Raiders on a 4 on 2d6).

Harridan - Again as you say, a very flexible beast, with a significant transport capacity.

Hierophant - Multi-task with an emphasis on CC ability.



Now, how I see the new Bio-Titans:


Vituraptor - SuperHeavy flier, somewhat like a Dominatrix of the skies. Note: AFAIK there is no model for this unit planned?

Hydraphant - A walking vision of hell! This is the only beast out there that should keep the MW5+ breath weapon. The model for this can be the old E:40k model, since the new Hierophant will be somewhat smaller and slender looking.


I was basing my break downs on the 40K cannon.

Which is why I have put the Trygon as anti infantry. ?You got its S wrong. ?The baby is only S8. ?So it will still penatrate a landraider on an average roll of 2D6. ?I would still like to see it primary anti infantry. ?Perhaps even knock it down to 2DC.

also its FF might be given a bump to 5+. ?I've never used its bio electic field but it looks okay on paper.

EDIT: forgot about the barbed heirodule  :( .  He only has 2 S10 attacks (3 on the charge)  I don't think it is desrving of a MW attack though it might warrent  4+CC




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Bio-Titan Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:37 pm 
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Ah sorry I did indeed get the strength wrong on the Trygon, still it only need a 6 on 2d6, so it still needs bad luck not to break a tank into little bits, I'd say it does deserve those 2 MW attacks.

According to its wounds & Structure points, I'd say it does deserve at least DC-3.

Bumping FF to 5+ seems possible.



Barbed hierodule going to CC 4+ also makes sense to me.




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