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Tiding from SG about epic
primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:54 pm 
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(dafrca @ Aug. 02 2006,14:06)
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(Legion 4 @ Aug. 02 2006,11:01)
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In my mind ... bottomline is ... show me the minis ...

For me, in the end the ERC is nothing if GW/SG do not put out minis on a regulr basis. Even twice a year is fine if it stays consistant.

In my mind the real issue will always be the minis. I can create rules myself if need be.

dafrca

Hi!

Yup.

Rules are not what is need.

Minis are....

..I'll beleive it when they are in my hands....

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Hi!

I beleive in actions... not words.

For me the whole epic A drama has been a lot of promises, but little execution.

Just read the firepower issues in those enthusiastic heydays at its start. They even promised to bring back the whole old epic line, beetlebacks and all sorts of pipedreams. Epic A had only to make available the old stuff and then worried about replacing with newer stuff. It would been a lot better this way.

All I hear now is excuses. We can justify them, sure, as fans thats what we do. But it gets tiresome after a while.

Here's another question for everyone...

Even IF the choas stuff comes out, its so late in coming, who besides us few will care?

Marketing a game is about timing as well as about the product and its availability.

How many would be epic players have already "moved on"?

Beyond we few rabid fans, who actually is even AWARE they might come out with chaos? Not to mention the other missing armies....

As leader of the cronies, yes all GW executives should be shot....

Primarch

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:34 pm 
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Your so right, I've lost many a potential Epic A player after giving them the I dont know, months to years till your fave aremy/force is available, maybe never.  
who in their right mind markets their products like that?
line em up and I'll volenteer to shoulder a rifle anytime.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:56 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Aug. 03 2006,16:21)
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 03 2006,00:07)
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House Rules - Sounds good, though I'm disapointed to hear that the Titan Weapons modifications will never become official.

Huh?  I listed that as an example of "will be official but pending part of a larger release."

Ah I happily apologise! :D

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dafrca
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:33 pm 
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(primarch @ Aug. 03 2006,12:12)
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I beleive in actions... not words.

For me the whole epic A drama has been a lot of promises, but little execution.

Amen. Fits my thoughts 100%. I love Epic and will always own minis. But Until I see actions, and I mean real actions I just can not get "happy" over words.

Here's another question for everyone...

Even IF the choas stuff comes out, its so late in coming, who besides us few will care?

Marketing a game is about timing as well as about the product and its availability.

How many would be epic players have already "moved on"?


In my area? Well, when the rule book came out I had eight people willing to meet every two weeks to play. Today, one other person still owns his minis and he has not been interested in playing for quite a while. So 7/8th loss.

dafrca

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Magnus
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:34 am 
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(primarch @ Aug. 03 2006,21:12)
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As leader of the cronies, yes all GW executives should be shot....

Primarch

If you need an helping hand, here's another cronie ready to shoot....

I have to say I really find it amazing how people still support/believe in GW given their track record in the last 16 YEARS.

Maybe they're right an we're too cynic.

Me, I like to think of myself as "wisened up".
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Markconz
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:44 pm 
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Primarch and proud Primarch cronies ( :;): ). You talk as though the current edition of epic has 'failed'. (I also think that you have a very rose tinted view of the Space Marine years and of the marketing and support that was available then - but that is another story for another thread, or maybe an incoming article... ?:;): )

Question: What I would like to know is are more people playing Epic Armageddon now than were playing Space Marine over a decade ago? I may have asked this question once before but as far as I can recall no-one seemed to know the answer - or even to be able to guess at it.

Is it possible that despite the multitude of other games now available in the marketplace against which Epic Armageddon has to compete for a niche, Epic Armageddon may nevertheless have a more numerous player base now than Space Marine ever did?

I expect the response to this will be a dodging of my question and more complaints about how GW could have done a thousand things differently to what it has done. Nevertheless the question still stands. What are the actual numbers like? I would love to know. Come on - you guys must really want to show me some numbers and say 'I told you so!' ?:D




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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:18 pm 
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Marconz how would you ave me anser that, I am one gamer, heck their isnt even an actual GW store in my state! I can tell you that when I started playing Epic, back in the era of space marine/ titan legions. I could walk right in to Indies and buy epic right off the shelf, I havent been able to do that the entire life of epic A. I was introduced to Epic, by three guys and their were another 8 guys down at my local shop who played semi regularly. I now know one guy locally who still plays. I personally introduced 4 people to the new game and even gave one of them an army. Only one plays today. I currently have a second army that needs a little work of Eldar that I would happily give away to any local player here if they were willing to play, I've had no takers on that offer for months. I myself own three armies worth of Orks, a decent Imperial guard army a space marine force, and my tyranids. but with all of that I still cant say overal wether their are more or less Epic players now than then, I havent travelled the world after all, for all I know Epic could be doing great two or three states over from me. Locally however we have no support watso ever. I have several articles in old White Dwarfs and even one hardback epic rules supplement from back in the day as well as my tryrands, Orks and  Imperial supplements, etc etc, from back in the day. Today I cant get printed supplements anything like those. so from my perspective the new Epic A is already dead in the water compared to the SM days.




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Magnus
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:20 pm 
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(Markconz @ Aug. 04 2006,14:44)
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Primarch and proud Primarch cronies ( :;): ). You talk as though the current edition of epic has 'failed'. (I also think that you have a very rose tinted view of the Space Marine years and of the marketing and support that was available then - but that is another story for another thread, or maybe an incoming article...  :;): )

Question: What I would like to know is are more people playing Epic Armageddon now than were playing Space Marine over a decade ago?

I have no hard numbers, and I suspect you won't get any of those unless you know someone rather high-up in GW's corporate food chain.
So yes, if you're playing the "hard numbers" game, you win on account of no available info.

I can however relate the difference between now and then from my perspective:

THEN (back 1989-90 circa): go into an hobby shop, look at the epic blisters, choose what to buy

NOW (last year actually, I fully expect nowadays is even worse): go at GW's italian national headquarters in Rome (where they have a shop), look for Epic, find a couple of lonely blisters, ask for rules and something else, get reply "we only sell Epic on preorder".

Judging by total unavailability (not even GW's HQ, for crying out loud....) and absolute zero market and retail presence, I'd be incredibly surprised if the current italian players of Epic (whichever edition) number as much as 1/10 of the players back in 1990.

The problem is not whether I have rose-tinted glasses or not. The problem here is that I cannot buy Epic anymore, except on the Internet. And you need an HELL of an explanation if you want to convince me that an Internet-only miniature game is in better conditions than a miniature game selling in retail stores.


Magnus "Old Cronie"
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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:56 pm 
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Well, hmm.  Let me weigh in with my opinion as a 'cronie'  :p   Maybe I'm kind of weird, but I don't really care too much about the ability to buy Epic:A off the shelf.  Of course, I have never had any store that I would consider a 'gaming' store nearby, so that alters my percetion somewhat.  Maybe I am just used to using the 'net to order whatever I want.  (shrug)  
    My only 'thing' that I really wish for is that GW would go to a Print-On-Demand style of publishing for the rules and supplements.  I have long given up on them ever finishing up the Epic line, which may be cynical, but hey, they don't have a very good track record here.  But if I could just get nice, pretty copies of the rules, that would return the fuzzy feeling to my tummy.  I'll funnel money to other , more reliable companies for the minatures.

mmmm......fuzzy.....mmmmmm


ib

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consectari
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:39 pm 
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I guess I'm just the opposite of ib. ?I don't really care about printed books. ?Sure it would be nice, but for getting new players into the game, you couldn't beat free rules!

Of course there is where it stops.

As opposed to print on demand books, I'd rather see produce on demand minis. ?I've bought minis from produce on demand companies. ?Pay your money, wait 4-6 weeks, play with toys. ?Pretty simple. ?

Who here wouldn't prefer to wait 4-6 weeks over NEVER. ?I say, if SG can't do it, licence existing molds over to another company and let them do it. ?SG still gets $$$ with minimal resources involved. ?

If they gave a DAMN, there are other options than cutting people off completely.

I tried to stay away from this thread, but I'm getting really annoyed at the way it has changed from defending GW to personal attacks against those people who are facing up to reality. ?Some of you need to learn to tell the difference between your loyalty to a game like Epic and the company that produces it. ?

Personally, I'd like to see this thread closed up or deleted because it's not going anywhere productive!




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:42 pm 
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Personally, I'd like to see this thread closed up or deleted because it's not going anyway productive!


Oh I don't know, Neal's occasional posts have been most welcome. :)

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:44 pm 
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But I think that we all can agree on the fact that we'd all like to see G/W-S/G-F/W release Epic Chaos, 'Nids, Necrons, a CI, etc., etc. !  Realizing that some will be E40K re-releases, with some New (CI?) stuff mixed in ...   That is my hope ... but I'm not going to bet the farm on it ... yet !  Here's to hoping ... :;):

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:49 pm 
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I've held the ForgeWorld Epic scale Arvus Lighter, it's small, cute, and entirely useless on the battlefield. :D

But they're giving us a proper-scale ThunderHawk soon, which is a start at least... or a continuation... or a restart... I dunno... it's something. :)




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Magnus
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:52 pm 
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(consectari @ Aug. 04 2006,16:39)
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I tried to stay away from this thread, but I'm getting really annoyed at the way it has changed from defending GW to personal attacks against those people who are facing up to reality.

Oy! If by personal attacks you mean the gentle nudges Markconz gave to us cronies, don't worry.... we can handle that.

After all, 16 years of GW mistreatments can give anyone a very tick skin  :p
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