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Norn Queen Report #3
Jaldon
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:13 am 
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Norn Queen Report #3

After a good number of battles using v7.1, and reading the posted batreps, I must say that I am very satisfied with the way all of the Special Rules are working. Now some may complain about the number of special rules the Nids have, and even others may point to them and say their favorite army should have more special rules because of this, and to both I must say bunk!

(1) Most of the Special Rules aren?t really special rules, instead they are a way to deal with the Nid Army within the confines of the GT Scenario. If anything these ?Special Rules? do not really benefit the Nid Army.

(2) The unique situation created by the ?Unstoppable Rule?, and the ?Spawning Rules? force the Nid Army to be delt with differently to prevent them from dominating the battlefieldas this concerns the GT objectives on the table. Again these really aren?t special rules so much as just a way to deal with the Nid Army within the confines of the GT scenario.

(3) If I could have thought of a way to maintain the Nid Core Special Rules of Unstoppable and Spawning without these extras I would have, but to date no such ?Way? has appeared.

So now it is time to do a flip-flop in the concentration of our efforts, put the special rules in the back seat, and bring the unit data/TO&E up into the front seat. A firestorm may occur after what I am about to post here, and this will be fine as it is how we get things done, but for the most part these are my opinions on where the units stand at this time.

Lesser Brood Creatures
Except for the ?weapons names? issues I am pretty happy all around with how these creatures are working, and how they ?feel? on the battlefield. Playtest battles of ?All Gaunts? and  ?All Raveners? and a ?Gaunt/Ravener Mix? have produced pretty much the same results so we feel they are pretty balanced against each other.

Brood Creatures
By in large I am also happy with the way these creatures are working with just some minor issues on who should be armed with what. That said I still ?feel? like something is missing here but I just cannot put my finger on it. Nothing major mind you, but something.

Independent Creatures
Lictors and Genestealers seem to feel and work fine, with maybe a looser sized Genestealer Brood being something to think about (An option to make it even larger is my thought on this). As for the AVs and WEs in this section it probably isn?t going to hurt to mess a bit with they way some of them are armed.

Synapse Creatures
About the only thing I really want to look at here is the Dominatrix Weapon Loadout, and it probably wouldn?t hurt to give both the Harridan and the Vituperator and good close look.

Well this should get the ball rolling a bit, once again sorry for my absence from the boards, and I will be checking in daily for a good while now (Well at least I hope I don?t get called away again).

Jaldon

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:04 am 
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I've had a half-dozen playtest games with the list now, and generally I'm pretty happy.

The only exception for me are the armaments on the Bio-titan class units (Which are often armed differently from their 40k 'cannon' equivilents), and the lack of the Barbed Hierodule (It seems odd to me that we don't have rules for it when it's one of the very few new models we'll be getting).




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ragnarok
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:06 am 
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Thanks for the report.

One question, is the idea for a broodlord upgrade for the stealer swarms still on the cards?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:21 pm 
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I'd like to see:


- Hierophant template weapon removed, given bio-cannons like the model is armed with.


- Barbed Hierodule brought back, since we'll be getting a Barbed Hierodule model.


- Harridan Template weapon removed to be like the cannon version, maybe DC increased to 3, both to compensate for the loss of the Template weapon & because in its epic version it's too vulnerable compared to the other bio-titans.


- Trygon, the Template attack should be removed, so it just has a short range MW electricity attack. It could possibly gain Teleport too to represent it tunneling onto the battlefield.



Oh and all these (a) & (b) names should be changed to Scythed Hierodule, Barbed Hierodule, Trygon, etc.



EDIT:

A Broodlord Upgrade sounds cool, and simple.




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Jaldon
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:19 am 
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The only exception for me are the armaments on the Bio-titan class units (Which are often armed differently from their 40k 'cannon' equivilents), and the lack of the Barbed Hierodule (It seems odd to me that we don't have rules for it when it's one of the very few new models we'll be getting).


I do want to do one, Barbed Hierodule, though there is some question as to GW/SG producing a model for it.

One question, is the idea for a broodlord upgrade for the stealer swarms still on the cards?

Yes, all we need do is come up with an acceptable, easy, conversion idea. I do want to include it.

- Hierophant template weapon removed, given bio-cannons like the model is armed with.


I am sorta torn on changing the Hierophants Template weapon right now. Though there is some rational for removing it, I wouild like to study it a bit more.

- Harridan Template weapon removed to be like the cannon version, maybe DC increased to 3, both to compensate for the loss of the Template weapon & because in its epic version it's too vulnerable compared to the other bio-titans.


It's DC IS going to be increased, and the Template weapon removed, I have been getting a lot of flak from the local group to replace it with something else.

Oh and all these (a) & (b) names should be changed to Scythed Hierodule, Barbed Hierodule, Trygon, etc.


By the next version posted they will be. The A/Bs were used for simplicity while we concentrated on the core special rules, which I am pretty happy with now.

- Trygon, the Template attack should be removed, so it just has a short range MW electricity attack. It could possibly gain Teleport too to represent it tunneling onto the battlefield.


Actually the local group really like the Trygon's template weapon, and so do I :O

But we are now moving into the 'work on the units' part of the list so pretty much everything IS on the table and everything WILL get considered.

It would seem, and I don't find this too suprising, that the Tyranid Tanks and Titans are the ones most feel need work.

Please feel free to post thoughts on the stats you would like to see, I will put them on file and study them. I am positive that this fine group can come up with some excellant ideas that I hadn't considered.

Thanks All......................

Jaldon :p

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:52 am 
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I do want to do one, Barbed Hierodule, though there is some question as to GW/SG producing a model for it.


The Barbed Hierodule, as well as the Scythed one, will be produced by ForgeWorld when the time is right.

I am sorta torn on changing the Hierophants Template weapon right now. Though there is some rational for removing it, I wouild like to study it a bit more.

Well if you need extra rationale, a MW template weapon is kinda overkill for a smaller titan, but still, my main point is that it's completely against the abilities of the new 40k Hierophant.


It's DC IS going to be increased, and the Template weapon removed, I have been getting a lot of flak from the local group to replace it with something else.

Cool. I doubt I'd replace the template weapon with anything though, the Harridan has no ranged abilities other than the bio-cannons in 40k.

If a Template weapon had to exist on a Bio-Titan, I'd probably give it to Vituraptors & Hydraphants, which do not have any cannon examples in other depictions of the 40k universe to come into conflict with.


Actually the local group really like the Trygon's template weapon, and so do I :O

I just think that it's potentially rather overpowered (If you take a group of Trygons), and it doesn't match with the new Trygon's abilities in 40k, where its electricity attack has been made more powerful, but vastly shorter range (12", the same as a Marine's Boltgun pretty much).

So I think there's justification to remove the template, give the Trygon a short ranged (20cm) MW attack (Maybe D3 attacks, in 40k its a random number of attacks), and give it Teleport to represent it tunneling onto the battlefield to join a brood unexpectedly before an assault.

This makes its role unique.



Please feel free to post thoughts on the stats you would like to see, I will put them on file and study them. I am positive that this fine group can come up with some excellant ideas that I hadn't considered.

I'll make some posts on other aspects of the list at some point, after a few more playtest games.



As ever I'll repeat the mantra of the models I know ForgeWorld have ready / will produce:

- Hierophant.
- Barbed Hierodule.
- Scythed Hierodule.
- Harridan
- Trygon




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:12 am 
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(Hena @ Jul. 29 2006,09:03)
QUOTE
Teleport is useless, unless it has transport. As it is brood creature and needs synapse (and no synapse has teleport), so it cannot use the ability.

Not really, it would just be restricted to Teleporting into coherence (And thus joining) with a formation already on the table.

That way when the brood is later activated, the Trygon(s) are activated too, as they have now fully joined the formation.


Giving each Trygon Transport might make sense, but only on the initial arrival, since Transport is only an abstraction for its ability to bring some smaller broods along with its Tunneling ability.

Perhaps give Trygons a rule such as:

- Transport (2) (Transported units must disembark as soon as the Trygon arrives on the battlefield).

I don't think Trygons should be independant.




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ragnarok
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:35 am 
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Trygon
The Trygon could teleport down and become its own formtion of a turn, and spend the turn either killing lots of stuff or joining a synpase unit. ?Though this does give us the ability to add in a few bonus 1 model activations for a turn. ?But I don't see them as any worst than single SHT formations in the IG list

Broodlord
I believe that the version we played around with for a while was a character with a +1MW CC attack, invunbale save and inspiring. ?0-1 per formation at 50pts

Though keeping to 40K fluff it should disallow the formation from infiltrting (slows them down) but will allow them to teleport (Burst out of hiding)  :D

bio titans
With the bio titans I would like to see the varity seen on the Gargants.  SO you can choose between long ranged firepower and closecomabt with nomore than 2 weapons total.

The only problem with the guns on the biotitan is I'm not sure if they are worth the +1 TK(1) close combat attack, but since they are being looked at this might change.

Breath weapons
I still don't mind the Harridan and Heirophant having breathweapons (being converted from Gargoyles my Harridans sport nifty breathweapon mouths already).  Since I see their power being too great for the 40K battle field.

Me: "Right My Harridan is going to shoot"

prey opponent: "So what is his range?"

Me: "He hits everything on the table automatically with  S10 AP3."

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:49 am 
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(Hena @ Jul. 29 2006,10:05)
QUOTE
Just forgot. We need to reduce the amount of MW available as longer range weaponry. Perhaps change some weapons to lance (trygon at least).

Nah, the Trygon's attack is definitely strong enough to be a MW ability, it should just have a short range is all, rather than being a Template.



Oh it may be worth mentioning that Broodlord have the Synapse ability in 40k.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:53 pm 
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I definitely think the number of Macroweapon attacks in the list need to go down as well... Right now the list runs like this:

Dominatrix: 1
Vituperaptor: 3
Harridan: 3
Hydraphant: 1
Hierophant: 1
Haruspex: 1
Heirodule: 1
Trygon: 1
Exocrine: 1

That's 13 different macroweapons available to the list spread across 9 different unit-types, many of which aren't that hard to field in multiples. And a fair number of those weapons have a range of 30-45cm, as long as standard infantry. I believe several of them really should not be Macroweapons.

Notably: Bio-Cannon, Bio-Acid.

I think the Bio-Acid should be an AP4+ Ignore Cover, Lance attack, which more closely represents it's stats in 40K and helps alleviate the problems with massive numbers of MW (Maybe make it also give the person +1 EA in Firefights with Ignore Cover and Lance. Since it's essentially a Heavy Flamer with much better penetration ability).

Bio-Cannon: AP 3+/AT 3+. I think that one's very simplistic. They're highly powerful and quite capable of wiping out squads of enemies, but really aren't much better at it then Demolisher Cannons are. They do have the added advantage of not scattering so they're better at taking out tanks. But for infantry they're typically about the same. Maybe make each of the Bio-Cannons get 2 shots at AP3+/AT4+ or something similar. This would also help bring the 'shooty' versions of the Hierodule and Hydraphant into line with the other race's Titans. Give the person the option of 0-2 Bio-Cannons or 0-2 Razor Talons, Razor Talons being EA +1 TK(D3) each. Maybe even EA +2. In the past they've always been roughly comperable to an Imperial Titan's Powerfist.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Norn Queen Report #3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:29 pm 
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(Hena @ Jul. 29 2006,09:03)
QUOTE
Teleport is useless, unless it has transport. As it is brood creature and needs synapse (and no synapse has teleport), so it cannot use the ability.

Actually, Synapse Nodes have teleport...

And I believe infiltrator could be used to represent the Trygon's tunnelling ability.




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