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Modular Weapons Costs V1.3
baronpiero	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:08 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186	I just realized that the fire control head wouldn't work with the DSM since it's not a barrage weapon => have the DSM indirect fire on its own. Unlimited stuff leads to potential abuse, so define a range for the DSM even if it's a rather long range.
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Ilushia	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:13 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	The Vortex Missile, as I recall it, did some really weird shit under the old AT rules. It created a vortex template which hung around on the field for a while and did a lot of bizarre things like moving on it's own and generally made a big mess of the battlefield. The Warp Missile was the one that ignored shields. It's my personal favorite, and exceedingly nasty. About infinite range: WHY do you feel this allows for problems? It's a one-shot weapon, and having infinite range doesn't really hurt the balance of the weapon any, I think. The No LoS Required could, concevibly, be an issue due to 'over the shoulder' firings on Overwatch. But even then, that's not a huge issue. You're essentially blowing a 160 point missile with extreme TK abilities for a single shot. Making them Indirect is cool with me. But I don't see a functional reason to give them a maximum range. And frankly it flies in the face of the idea that they're a cruise-missile which almost certainly has a humongous (1000+ KM) range. Especially given that the missile is the size of a Titan-II ICBM!
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Chroma	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:24 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (Ilushia @ 16 June 2006 (14:13)) About infinite range: WHY do you feel this allows for problems? Well, if it has 120cm base range, that's 240cm on indirect fire, are there a lot of games going on with tables where that isn't, essentially, "infinite" range? As well, with Imperial technology, I'm not sure their "cruise missiles" are up to our *current* cruise missiles... _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Evil and Chaos	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:41 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire	That was basically my thought too, 120cm was a good number as when doubled it should reach any part of most boards, but if you want that extreme range, you have to sustain fire, losing a turn of movement. I do think that it is debatable whether it should be renamed and retooled to be a Warp missile instead of a Vortex missile, as thanks to Ilushia's prompting I now remember a little of how to Vortex missile used to work... nasty b**tards they were, with a very different mechanic to a conventional missile... in today's terms, more like a single blast template which inflicted TK hits and spent its turns drifting around the table. Now it would be possible to replicate that, but it'd require: a - A new rule (Which I'm trying to avoid). b - Lots of chinscratching. _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
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Ilushia	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:21 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Actually, there're rules for them in 'It's All In Your Warhead' thing on the Specialist Games site. It's a homerule set for the old style missiles. Vortex, Warp and others too. Fairly neat.
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Evil and Chaos	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:36 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire	I'll have a look at them and see what's compact enough to borrow.. _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
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Evil and Chaos	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:14 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire	Okay, list updated to 1.3d, now including: - The Warp Missile and - A Vortex missile that works like a simplified version of the "All in your Warhead" version. I think it still retains the nessesary character. Rather obviously, the questions in play for the next revision of the list are: - Is the Vortex Missile balanced? Is it really nessesary to introduce a new rule just for a missile? - Is the Warp Missile balanced? Cheers! _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
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Ilushia	Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:21 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Some notes: The 'At least half weapons must be tactical' should be implemented for ALL armies if they're allowed to use this list to customize weapon load-outs. As it'll prevent things like Imperial Guard armies with 3x Volcano Cannon or 3x Quake Cannon, Fire Control Head, Reavers from appearing (Which would be really sickening alongside IG disruptive artillery!) The Vortex Missile should say 'Treat any models leaving the Template?s area of effect as moving  through Dangerous Terrain.' not difficult. Difficult terrain doesn't exist in Epic, terrain doesn't affect move speed. I'd kick the missiles up to 150cm range, that's 300 with sustained fire, sufficiently long to fire diagonally across a 5 foot by 8 foot table, but anything significantly larger then that (like an 8x12 table for a Mega Battle) will be too large for it to cover. Meaning in all 'standard sized' games it'll have infinite range while indirect firing, but under special conditions it might not. The Barrage Missile's range should be changed to match that of the other missile-systems, since it's essentially the same delivery system with a different warhead. Vulcan Mega Bolter should be moved to 5x AP3+/AT5+, to match the current consensus about what stats it SHOULD have, since it's been decided (As I understand it) that 6x is too strong. That's everything I can pick out of the list right now.
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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Modular Weapons Costs V1.3 Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:48 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Some notes: The 'At least half weapons must be tactical' should be implemented for ALL armies if they're allowed to use this list to customize weapon load-outs. As it'll prevent things like Imperial Guard armies with 3x Volcano Cannon or 3x Quake Cannon, Fire Control Head, Reavers from appearing (Which would be really sickening alongside IG disruptive artillery!) Agreed. The Vortex Missile should say 'Treat any models leaving the Template?s area of effect as moving  through Dangerous Terrain.' not difficult. Difficult terrain doesn't exist in Epic, terrain doesn't affect move speed.

Indeed!

I'd kick the missiles up to 150cm range, that's 300 with sustained fire, sufficiently long to fire diagonally across a 5 foot by 8 foot table, but anything significantly larger then that (like an 8x12 table for a Mega Battle) will be too large for it to cover. Meaning in all 'standard sized' games it'll have infinite range while indirect firing, but under special conditions it might not.

Agreed.

The Barrage Missile's range should be changed to match that of the other missile-systems, since it's essentially the same delivery system with a different warhead.

Agreed.


Vulcan Mega Bolter should be moved to 5x AP3+/AT5+, to match the current consensus about what stats it SHOULD have, since it's been decided (As I understand it) that 6x is too strong.

I wasn't aware that was the consensus, I'll modify it.