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Praetorians
Ilushia
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 12:14 am 
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I'm rather curious. Fluff-wise, and indeed unit-model wise, the Praetorians are supposed to be essentially ogryn, or at least ogryn-sized and strength, servitors... Why then is the Praetorian CCWs only EA (+1) and not EA (+1) and MW? Was this decided to make them too powerful or something? I'm just rather currious as to the differentiation here.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:24 am 
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Theres a lot of discussion on this floating around.

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oreso
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:11 am 
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which doesnt answer the question.

they should be as tough as ogryns, with the same CC and with bigger guns.

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dafrca
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:45 am 
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Quote (oreso @ 03 June 2006 (16:11))
which doesnt answer the question.

they should be as tough as ogryns, with the same CC and with bigger guns.

Those who wanted them that way were out numbered by those who disagreed at the time the list was originally made.

That is the bottom line answer.

dafrca

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:45 am 
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There's nothing really wrong with Praetorians as is. It just strikes me as odd that their fluff material talks about them being Ogryns/ogryn-like creatures, seems odd that they wouldn't be as well equipped for melee as Ogryns are. I suppose it comes with the ability to carry plasma-rifles in each squad (Which is sweet.)
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oreso
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:44 pm 
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who argued for them to be contrary to the fluff, and like, why did they do so?

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dafrca
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:08 pm 
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Quote (oreso @ 04 June 2006 (04:44))
who argued for them to be contrary to the fluff, and like, why did they do so?

oreso,

I do nto think it was against the fluff so much as against having them match different points of view of what they are and how much impact they should have on the overall battlefield.

Be that as it may, may I suggest you head over to the SG forums and upload the old discussions for a full story.

dafrca

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dptdexys
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:35 pm 
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Quote (Ilushia @ 13 May 2006 (00:14))
I'm rather curious. Fluff-wise, and indeed unit-model wise, the Praetorians are supposed to be essentially ogryn, or at least ogryn-sized and strength, servitors... Why then is the Praetorian CCWs only EA (+1) and not EA (+1) and MW? Was this decided to make them too powerful or something? I'm just rather currious as to the differentiation here.

I suppose it depends on which fluff you read in the 1st Firepower magazine they are discribed as fully grown men who are testbeds for the AM with biological and bionic enhancements.
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dafrca
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:00 pm 
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Quote (dptdexys @ 04 June 2006 (06:35))
Quote (Ilushia @ 13 May 2006 (00:14))
I'm rather curious. Fluff-wise, and indeed unit-model wise, the Praetorians are supposed to be essentially ogryn, or at least ogryn-sized and strength, servitors... Why then is the Praetorian CCWs only EA (+1) and not EA (+1) and MW? Was this decided to make them too powerful or something? I'm just rather currious as to the differentiation here.

I suppose it depends on which fluff you read in the 1st Firepower magazine they are discribed as fully grown men who are testbeds for the AM with biological and bionic enhancements.

Truth be told there were afew places that did not seem to line up in the fluff. Many had their own ideas based on what fluff stuck to their heads. This in turn impacted their point of view in regards to how powerful they should be.

Did not help the argument when the only minis made of servitors were all human sized figures.

dafrca

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:35 am 
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Well, it is better these days than before - in the V1.1 list they were barely better than fearless guard. I argued in favour of them being bigger badder and tougher, but they're not as mean as I would like...yet.

I actually came up with different statlines for the different combat servitors in the fluff... the man-sized ones from 40K, the light, stalker praetorians  and the big ean "small dreadnought" types too. (e.g. from Xenos)

Here:
http://geocities.com/lordinquisitor/praetorians.htm

I still think it would be nice to have two types of praetorian (or more :p )... one for the 'praetorian' entry (i.e. the big tough types), and one to replace the sentinel formation as a scout servitor.

I actually don't think their stats should be based directly off Ogryns... while some are made from Ogryns, certainly, most will not be. And I would say that some kind of RA would be in order to represent how tough they are (5+RA or 4+RA) although a straight 3+ is okay. I would also advocate some kind of heavy weapon - multilasers fits the bill best for me - and an increase to their firepower to 4+.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:11 am 
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Remember, there are Praetorian Servitors and Skitarii. Skitarii are human-sized tech-guards with cybernetic upgrades and basically the 'rank and file' soldiers of the Mechanicus. The Praetorians are supposed to be specifically designed for heavy-duty combat and defense of their masters.
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dafrca
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:50 am 
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Yes and if I remember right (I am going back a ways in my memory, always a questionable thing) the argument went something like this....

Skitarii are less then IG normal troops, so then Praetorians do not need to be much better to be "The Better" troops. Not 100% accurate, but you get the point.

dafrca

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:02 pm 
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Where did it say that Skitarii are inferior to the Imperial Guard? I'm sure I read somewhere from a recent source that Skitarii are considered quite superior to the IG due to augmentation.

But that's quite aside from Praetorians. Every source I can think of describes them as hulking battle servitors, with as much in common with a stormtrooper as a dreadnought to a space marine.

Personally I think making them LVs would be cool - they should be easily as big as a sentinel or killa kan.

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Mechanicus
 Post subject: Praetorians
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:14 pm 
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Where did it say that Skitarii are inferior to the Imperial Guard? I'm sure I read somewhere from a recent source that Skitarii are considered quite superior to the IG due to augmentation.

But that's quite aside from Praetorians. Every source I can think of describes them as hulking battle servitors, with as much in common with a stormtrooper as a dreadnought to a space marine.

Personally I think making them LVs would be cool - they should be easily as big as a sentinel or killa kan.


Yes, Explorator Warbands for Inquisitor, they are mentioned as being the equivilent of Storm Troopers in terms of weaponry/skills, etc.

Praetorians are also mentioned. See the article here (about a third of the way down the page) for more info.

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