Newest GW price changes |
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes  Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:19 am |
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| Quote (Hena @ 26 May 2006 (08:31)) | | Quote (Ilushia @ 26 May 2006 (07:49)) | | My own distance calculations would seem to put it at about the same distance, roughly. At least by road if not by straight-line distance. From Seattle Washington to Stratford CT is roughly 3000 miles by road. Comparatively from Madrid Spain to Berlin Germany is only about 1500 miles by road. Not the same as the prior comment, no. But that's about half the distance between Portugal and Moscow. So it'd be reasonable to consider Portugal to Moscow to be in the 3000 mile range, about the same as you'd have to drive to cross the lower 48 states. |
Umm... ok. So this is not the trip from washington dc to connecticut? You people have more washingtons that I knew it seems  .
But now it is from coast to coast, which I agree is from Lisbon to Moscow ballpark. But I'm pretty sure that you can drive the trip in US faster than you could from Lisbon to Moscow  . |
Ya. Washington State, Washington DC... I think there's even a Washington river somewhere! I'm fairly certain you could cross the US reasonably quickly (about 40 hours of driving, roughly. So 4-5 days would be reasonable). Now just imagine trying to be a professional truck driver in the US where you get those nice 4,000 mile hauls from Agusta to San Francisco. Mmm... Five days of non-stop driving, and nothing to do. Sounds like fun doesn't it?
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tneva82
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:46 am |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 25 May 2006 (21:33)) | | So they do not "loose" money because some on line guys sells their product for 25% off. They sold it to him at 35% or 40% off to begin with and still made money. |
Okay. I put my epic collection to ebay at price of XX. WHAT profit does GW get? Especially from parts I didn't buy from GW to begin with? Nothing.
So while people are happily buying stuff from ebay nobody bothers to buy from GW. So GW doesn't gain any money from epic. No wonder they don't want to support the game..._________________ www.tneva.net
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wargame_insomniac
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:10 pm |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 26 May 2006 (06:33)) | While all this is very interesting (serious, I mean it) the bottom line is, the company who for so long earned 90% of the money spent by me for games and related items (paint etc) has lost my support 100%.
I can not help but feel I am not alone in this. I bought almost all of my GW stuff from my FLGS and bitz from the GW on line store. They killed the bitz and they killed my local store by opening one of theirs a mile away and then made sure my FLGS always was a few days late on all new releases.
I know they do not care about me. I know they believe they do not need the old man any more. Sad because I know in one year I spent more then three of the teens who lap up their crap and then proxy or only by from discounters. GW lost the real customers in my mind. But they do not care and so neither do I.
dafrca |
I agree- it just allows me to spend more money on spaceship models as I am not buying from GW.
They have been a huge impact and force for good in creating and expanding our hobby- they just have to remember that they are not the entire hobby.
Cheers
James
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:59 pm |
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Daf: Yes, I agree with you that GW was not in such a situation, at least not yet. I was addressing more the "theoretical" statement you made rather than the specific situation.
Primarch: Well, we just have to disagree. Widespread or consistent discounts result in the discounted price being considered the "real" price in people's minds and the regular price becomes "overpriced" sooner or later. Look at the US car market as an example. US car manufacturers are stuck in a discount-sales/regular price-slump cycle because everyone knows that if they just wait long enough the next promotion discount will come. In the end the manufacturers have to provide the rebates to the dealers, effectively reducing the wholesale price.
As I said to Daf, I don't think it was happening in GW's case, but I don't think there can be any serious argument about whether it happens. Personally, I think it was a legitimate threat but they over reacted and/or decided on a medocre-to-bad strategy to compensate.
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Neal
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:17 pm |
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| Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 26 May 2006 (14:10)) | | They have been a huge impact and force for good in creating and expanding our hobby- they just have to remember that they are not the entire hobby. |
And that might be the whole problem. GW has forgotten, or has chosen to ignore, the fact that they most definitely are NOT the entire industry. I think, at least in the US, they have made a colossal mistake in not trying to work with indie stores. There is no way GW can saturate the market with company stores as has been done in the UK. AFAIK, there are two GW stores in all of New England, with the next closest store in Maryland, about 6 hours away.
My local hobby shop carried E40k for a bit when it was first released, but when GW demanded that the owner had to order X of everything, which was more than he could sell in a reasonable amount of time, the owner decided to stop carrying E40k all together. He got sick and tired of dealing with GW's nonsense.
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Heresiarch
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:06 pm |
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| Quote (tneva82 @ 26 May 2006 (02:46)) | Okay. I put my epic collection to ebay at price of XX. WHAT profit does GW get? Especially from parts I didn't buy from GW to begin with? Nothing.
So while people are happily buying stuff from ebay nobody bothers to buy from GW. So GW doesn't gain any money from epic. No wonder they don't want to support the game... |
Looked at the prices of 40k figs on eBay lately?
Theres no difference between epic and 40k in terms of discounts on eBay and the volume of 40k figs for sale is at least a full order of magnitude greater.
By your logic they wouldn't want to support 40k either.
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Bombot
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:06 pm |
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It IS a common mistake for international companies ? strategy A works well in one country so they take it to country B only for it to fail under different market conditions.
Really I think the flaws in their ?plaster the US with stores? strategy are obvious but GW are reluctant to give up because it means they lose the opportunity to gain total control of the market. But they ain?t going to get it in the States and the sooner they realize, the better for everyone.
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javelin98
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:43 pm |
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I remember being shouted down by a fanboy on DakkaDakka or the old Fanatic forums once when having the discussion of second-hand sales. He was saying that the strength of the second-hand market showed how popular Epic was and how GW would use that as a factor in deciding to keep the game alive or not. My counterpoint was that GW could give a rat's patootie about what's happening on eBay or Bartertown; the only thing that would matter to them were direct sales and retailers' orders. Any dollar not coming into their pockets was a dollar that wouldn't exist so far as the decision to support or drop the line goes.
I really think that the death knell of Epic may be nigh. Odds are the models will be relegated to Archive status and further official development will stop. Very disappointing, indeed.
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javelin98
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:50 pm |
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| Quote (Hena @ 25 May 2006 (21:11)) | I cannot gather where Connecticut is in US map, but are you sure of this example? The leght from Lisbon to Moscow is nearly the lenght from Washington to San Fransisco. At least using the map in http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/world.html and my fingers on the screen (which isn't very accurate, but I couldn't find any numbers anywhere  ). |
Sorry, I should have made it clear that I live in Washington State. Makes a huge difference! And I've made the Seattle-New York drive several times (as well as a Las Vegas-New York drive), so I have intimate knowledge of how long that drive can be!
I just don't think GW had a clear picture of how difficult it would be to network the US with their stores. Even more problematic is that their products have to be shipped either from England or from Memphis to their various outlets. Huge chains like McDonalds have regional (or even local, in the case of Pepsi and Coca Cola bottling plants) manufacturing facilities that can sustain the operations in the immediate area, bypassing the whole shipping-cost problem.
GW can't do that, and thus has to pay to ship cross-country, and that haul from Memphis to Seattle or Los Angeles is long and expensive. The efficiencies of a vertically-integrated supply chain are great, but can also act against you -- in this case, because GW has lost the efficiency gains of working through local gaming stores, who absorb all the costs of labor and real estate. That's no small thing.
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Bombot
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:54 pm |
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I think the fanboy has a point. The strength of the second hand market shows that there is at least a market for Epic. If there are sales on eBay, it?s a good sign that GW is making sales itself.
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:15 pm |
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| Quote (Bombot @ 26 May 2006 (16:54)) | | I think the fanboy has a point. ?The strength of the second hand market shows that there is at least a market for Epic. ?If there are sales on eBay, it?s a good sign that GW is making sales itself. |
I'll agree there is a market for Epic, but does GW consider it big enough? I have no doubts that GW could clean up if it released new minis (or even re-released old minis) for Chaos and Tyranids, but only if they were reasonably priced. How often do people buy Epic off ebay because the price is better than buying from GW directly? I suspect it's quite often. I know it's the case for me.
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javelin98
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:24 pm |
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| Quote (Bombot @ 26 May 2006 (08:54)) | | I think the fanboy has a point. The strength of the second hand market shows that there is at least a market for Epic. If there are sales on eBay, it?s a good sign that GW is making sales itself. |
I agree that it's a good indicator of popularity; I just don't think it would factor at all into GW's decisions to keep or kill the line. They'll look at their own (falling) sales numbers and decide that this product just isn't moving, so needs to be cut. A lot of the stuff on eBay isn't the latest release, either; it's stuff that has been floating around for five to fifteen years, so it would mean nothing to current sales for GW.
I wish they would just allow SG to re-release the older plastics for Nids and Chaos, even if they aren't faithful to current 40K models right down to the last eyelash. And a starter boxed set... that would be the bee's knees. That was one thing that Epic 40K did entirely right.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:21 pm |
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 26 May 2006 (17:15)) | | Quote (Bombot @ 26 May 2006 (16:54)) | | I think the fanboy has a point. ?The strength of the second hand market shows that there is at least a market for Epic. ?If there are sales on eBay, it?s a good sign that GW is making sales itself. |
I'll agree there is a market for Epic, but does GW consider it big enough? I have no doubts that GW could clean up if it released new minis (or even re-released old minis) for Chaos and Tyranids, but only if they were reasonably priced. How often do people buy Epic off ebay because the price is better than buying from GW directly? I suspect it's quite often. I know it's the case for me. |
I tend to buy stuff off ebay which are no longer available, personally. Old Knights Paladin, MK I Warlords and my Imperator all came off eBay because I can't get them from GW. I've spent well over $250, and would likely have spent it all on GW direct stuff if they still carried this stuff. I'd love to see multiple weapon configs for titans. Even if all they did was have Forgeworld produce extra weapon-types for them (like they do for 40K scale Leman Russ, Chimeras, Falcons, Wave Serpents... The list goes on and on). But GW has decided that that'll cost too much, so I can't get the things I want off them and I go elsewhere to get them. I do like their products, and their games, over-all. I just can't get the things I want out of them any more.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:55 pm |
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| Quote (tneva82 @ 26 May 2006 (01:46)) | | Quote (dafrca @ 25 May 2006 (21:33)) | | So they do not "loose" money because some on line guys sells their product for 25% off. They sold it to him at 35% or 40% off to begin with and still made money. |
Okay. I put my epic collection to ebay at price of XX. WHAT profit does GW get? Especially from parts I didn't buy from GW to begin with? Nothing.
So while people are happily buying stuff from ebay nobody bothers to buy from GW. So GW doesn't gain any money from epic. No wonder they don't want to support the game... |
OK, let's not confuse the used market with the on line discounters. What I sell my collection for on ebay does not impact the profit those figures made either way the first time they were sold.
Also, you selling your old figures does not impact the people who are buying the new version of the same figures. Look what happened to the after market for many of the figures and the new versions took value away from the ebay used market, not the other way around.
Regardless, your point is understood, just not agreed with.
GW makes profit for any "new" figure sold, regardless of who sells it, because they sold it first. They sold it to the retailer or to the store, or to you. They made their profit on their investment (materials, time, packaging, etc.)
Epic is an odd man out because they elected to stop selling so much of the line. Not our fault. Anyway, this has helped keep the used market elevated. However keep in mind again their ability to make profit was killed by them, not us. Had they left the archive up and selling many of us would still be buying. Molds long paid for would be creating profit hand over fist.
Bottom line is GW can make a profit on Epic if they wanted to. They do make a profit on Every New Figure they sell.
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: Newest GW price changes Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:02 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 26 May 2006 (06:59)) | | Widespread or consistent discounts result in the discounted price being considered the "real" price in people's minds and the regular price becomes "overpriced" sooner or later. ? |
I agree with Neal, it is a real issue for some markets.
My favorite one is Diamonds. The price is kept high solely by artificial means. Their ?real? value is far less then the perception in the market place. But because their rarity is kept high by market manipulation, and thus the perception is they have a value, people pay for mark ups of 250% or more on a ring.
Same goes for cars as Neal has said.
dafrca
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