Page 10 of 15

[ 218 posts ]

Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 15  Next

Manta Tweaking - correct points or not?
baronpiero	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:07 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186	Welcome to the boards Wargamer. Indeed, the Manta changed a lot since V3. But all those changes were miniature driven and deserved. Look at the mini: it's a behemoth, bigger than a warlord titan or a great gargant. So to me, the DC is clearly deserved. The problem is: evereything got up with the DC and we're stuck with a 850 pts warlord equilvelent now, which people don't seem to like for various reasons. For instance: - Me playing Tau: that's expensive, how can I get my points back if I don't face a big war engine to kill with the railcannons? Oh! here's a Gargant. Let's hunt him down. It's the only target I can get my points back on. - Opposing player: how can I prevent this overseering hard to kill thing not to get at my titan? That's cheesy! So the two main problems are: Weapon config is too specialized at killing ennemy titans, whereas a dropship meant to support hunter cadres during their various ground operations would rather suggest a more 'tactical' weapon config. =>Maybe we could try the heavy rails at TK(1) and drop cost accordingly. We don't have the choice between medium and big titan, so it would be cooler to come up with an intermediate points cost for the Manta. =>Maybe aim for 700-750 pts? Then what about the following changes: - Replace TK(D3) with TK(1) on the railcannons? As a result, the Manta would be more of a all rounder with a more 'tactical' weapon fit. - Replace armour 4+_reinforced with 5+_reinforced? Besides, this would equal to armor 13 in the taros book. - ... and drop the cost to 700 pts or something?
Top

Xisor	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:29 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	A small consideration I had: the Manta's big, it's gotta have a good deal of stocks of Railgun munitions for using against specific targets. I mean, we're clearly not seeing the weapons that are deployed against starships...are we? In this regard, perhaps allowing a few varied 'submunitions' for the Railcannon. Perhaps that'd allow it the flexibility to actually be 'worthwhile' most games at 850pts, and not only circumstantially when you face off against a few Titans. Perhaps that is a worthwhile way to go: That is- to explore the flexibility of the Manta that we don't see at it's 'full potential'. For one, there could be a 'scatter-drone' rail munition, one which seperates out into a few minor submunition allowing multiple targets to be hit with one railcannon? We know the main shot is 'drone-controlled' for hitting targets, so why not be converting the main bodies of the railguns akin to the Gravitic Launchers of the Tau Starships...able to launch a few shots in one go? Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
Top

Honda

Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:36 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

For one, there could be a 'scatter-drone' rail munition, one which seperates out into a few minor submunition allowing multiple targets to be hit with one railcannon? We know the main shot is 'drone-controlled' for hitting targets, so why not be converting the main bodies of the railguns akin to the Gravitic Launchers of the Tau Starships...able to launch a few shots in one go? There's more to this idea than you might think. In 40K, Hammerheads already have a submunition shot for their rail guns. I don't see any reason why the Manta Rail cannons couldn't have a similar type of shot. I think it's worth exploring. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Top

Ilushia	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:31 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	I believe in Epic that the submunition rounds are used for the reason why railguns can fire AP as well as AT on Hammerheads and other heavy vehicles. Hence why they're AP 4+/AT 3+ instead of just AT 3+. Broadsides can't use such weapons, so they don't get the AP ability. It might be neat to see some alternate munitions on the Manta, perhaps, but I kinda like the Scorpionfish being unique in it's multi-purpose-weapons.
Top

Tactica	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:55 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Just for my 2 cents - I have no desire to see a fictional clash of demiurg end up anywhere near the Tau universe. I most definitely do not want to see a walking titan in the tau ranks. Tau would *NEVER* align with squats. STUNTIES - don't have skimming technology, move slow, believe in large exploding ordinance, heavy armor, hand to hand combat, and pack heavy weapons... NOT very tau at all!! Long-bearded-hippie-stunty-freak-shows are NOT for the greater good - be gone to the intergalactic barber with the lot of you! Tau and stunties are like oil and water... never EVER happen! (now... braces for impact) _________________ Rob
Top

Ilushia	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:04 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Quote (Tactica @ 23 May 2006 (01:55)) Just for my 2 cents - I have no desire to see a fictional clash of demiurg end up anywhere near the Tau universe. I most definitely do not want to see a walking titan in the tau ranks. Tau would *NEVER* align with squats. STUNTIES - don't have skimming technology, move slow, believe in large exploding ordinance, heavy armor, hand to hand combat, and pack heavy weapons... NOT very tau at all!! Long-bearded-hippie-stunty-freak-shows are NOT for the greater good - be gone to the intergalactic barber with the lot of you! Tau and stunties are like oil and water... never EVER happen! (now... braces for impact) Actually... The BFG lists already have the Tau and Demiurg working together against the Orks. The Demiurg and Tau both hate the Orks. The Demiurg is motivated more by what the Tau can pay them. I DO agree that they shouldn't be giving out a titan though. I don't much like the idea of Tau with walking titans. They already have battlesuits and enough anime influence to spawn an entire genre... Do we REALLY need to give them a gigantic walking war-engine too?
Top

Xisor	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:43 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	Fortunately these are Mk Xisor Type Demiurg, not the abominations found on this forum!   That is: - No beards - No axes - No trikes - No ancestors - No rowdy dwarfen antics These are the Demiurg. The Commercialists who are not only aligned nearby the Tau, but are actively working in concert with the Tau Empire. Y'know, the ones seen here: http://www.specialist-games.com/battlef....Tau.pdf See the end of the Document. As a slight, if jovial, riposte here: Kroot believe in eating the dead, clobbering people in hand to hand, making money for personal gain, no using too much technology, living in trees. Not very Tau either, is it?   Kroot also happen to be the Tau's most prominent ally and largest contributor of soldiers to the Empire outside of the Shas, if my memory serves me well. It's not really 'in the Tau ranks' either, which is fortunate. I'm not too attached to the Demiurg, honestly!   I should think they'd be more prepared to lend out what is effectively a torpedo...of which they have tons, than a Battleship of which, I assume, they do not have tons. Walking titan or not, suggestions are good! Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
Top

Dobbsy	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:34 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am Posts: 4499 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Personally, a/ I would NEVER use a Demiurg item in my Tau army.No matter what it did. b/ I don't use the Manta because it costs too much in a 3000 pt game (the norm round here). I prefer to have more activations up my sleeve.  That said, if it was required to fight a warlord (p'raps, knowing my opponent was taking one)then I would. c/ I would also use a Manta if the game was large enough to justify it. d/ I think the Manta with 1+ Init is fine at 800 points. e/ If you don't like the Manta don't use it, but don't nerf it because you aren't happy with it. Learn it's weaknesses and deal with it that way. f/ It's still not set in stone. Playtest at 800pts with 1+ init.
Top

Xisor	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:00 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	Quote (Dobbsy @ 23 May 2006 (04:34)) a/ I would NEVER use a Demiurg item in my Tau army.No matter what it did. Why, out of interest? Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
Top

Honda	Post subject: Manta Tweaking - correct points or not? Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:37 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	(Dobbsy @ 23 May 2006 (04:34)) a/ I would NEVER use a Demiurg item in my Tau army.No matter what it did. Why, out of interest?

Because it starts with a "D". ?

I think a lot of this has to do with keeping the intent of the list focused.

Adding in various units can cause the intent of the list to become diluted. Then this no longer becomes a Tau list, but some amalgamation of units that really have no association with each other, except for the fact that they are undocumented immigrants in the Tau Empire. In essence, it no longer becomes "Tau".

If you are familiar with Ancient History army lists, the Later Romans have the same issue. There's so many mercenary units in their list, that by the time it's all said and done, there's nothing "Roman" about your army.

So, I would propose that if you want to build a list that supports some Tau/Demiurg alliance, then put something together much like Nerroth has and initiate a variant development effort.