Space Wolves |
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Lord Inquisitor
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Post subject: Space Wolves  Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:33 am |
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Location: Norfolk VA USA
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Some suggestions:
Headstrong and Mentor: I would suggest making Blood Claws initiative 2+ with a +1 modifier to an Engage actions. Lose the Mentor rule, it makes Wolf Priests a default choice in my mind (is that how it works in 40K? I forget...).
While I love the name mjolnir, I'm not too sure about them - it seems far too big a weapon for a LR. The SWs have leman russ... why not put Shadowswords (or a variant) in the list?
Plenty more suggestions, but it will have to wait...
Lord =I=
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:55 am |
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| Quote (Lord Inquisitor @ 17 May 2006 (00:33)) | Some suggestions:
Headstrong and Mentor: I would suggest making Blood Claws initiative 2+ with a +1 modifier to an Engage actions. Lose the Mentor rule, it makes Wolf Priests a default choice in my mind (is that how it works in 40K? I forget...).
While I love the name mjolnir, I'm not too sure about them - it seems far too big a weapon for a LR. The SWs have leman russ... why not put Shadowswords (or a variant) in the list?
Plenty more suggestions, but it will have to wait...
Lord =I= |
On mentor: This is more of a fluff-based idea then anything else. The Wolf Priests take up the mantle of mentor to the young Wolves. They fill the role of both Apothecaries and Chaplains in the Wolves, and so they have the dual job of creating more Space Wolves and training them. It seemed to make sense, to me at least, that they'd be most likely to lead the Blood Claws into battle. Originally we had it set up so they could ONLY be lead by Wolf Priests, but relaxed that to allow for other options. In basic 40K they can ignore Headstrong with any leader in their group, and the first version of Mentor let them ignore it, but I liked the idea that unless they were directed by a mentor (Job normally reserved for the Wolf Priests) that they'd suffer decreased discipline.
On the Mjolnir... You may be right. I don't really like the idea of putting a Shadowsword variant in directly, it doesn't feel right. The Exterminators are supposed to be a gift to the Wolves from the Imperial Guard, in recognition of their Primarch, for whom the tanks are named. It's possible we could give them some kinda SHT with such a weapon on it. But I'd rather not just give them a Shadowsword. The Wolves are notorious for disregarding the Inquisition, Adeptus Mechanicus and other Imperial mandates when it benefits them to do so. The Predator Annihilator is another example of their willingness to disregard the laws of the Mechanicus. Any suggestions on what you'd like to see them field instead would be much appreciated! I mostly just don't want to cut-and-paste something from another army list without a very good reason.
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Lord Inquisitor
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:29 pm |
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Okay. I still would recommend removing the Headstrong rule or changing it to a +1 initiative. Note that they are mandated to charge in 40K, but at the tactical level of Epic that's well after an assault has been committed, and they aren't incapable of following tactical orders, they just lose it once in assault. You could add a note in their datafax that they MUST counter-charge if possible, which is much more in keeping with their temperment.
While the Mentor rule is characterful, I feel it is one special rule too far. Is it really necessary? I don't think so, I suggest leave that level of detail for 40K.
I will ponder the 'shadowsword' thing, but I think you could get away with just cut-and-pasting it in.
Lord =I=
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:48 pm |
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| Quote (Lord Inquisitor @ 17 May 2006 (19:29)) | Okay. I still would recommend removing the Headstrong rule or changing it to a +1 initiative. Note that they are mandated to charge in 40K, but at the tactical level of Epic that's well after an assault has been committed, and they aren't incapable of following tactical orders, they just lose it once in assault. You could add a note in their datafax that they MUST counter-charge if possible, which is much more in keeping with their temperment.
While the Mentor rule is characterful, I feel it is one special rule too far. Is it really necessary? I don't think so, I suggest leave that level of detail for 40K.
I will ponder the 'shadowsword' thing, but I think you could get away with just cut-and-pasting it in.
Lord =I= |
This might also be possible. Though I think if I do that I'm still going to mandate that they must move as far as possible to get into melee (or try to) against the enemy. It really doesn't feel right, to me, for Blood Claws to go for clipping assaults or the like. I can't picture a large group of hot headed newbies who want to get in and rend their enemies limb-from-limb stopping well short of as far as they could get just to shoot at the enemy at extreme range.
It's possible we could just give them a Shadowsword, but it just doesn't feel quite right to me. There is fluff-wise reasoning to believe the Wolves would have the means and the willingness to build their own titan-killing units. But I can't really think of why they'd have access to Shadowswords when other chapters don't.
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Lord Inquisitor
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:05 pm |
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I agree about the clipping, but I would say I don't think that it really needs a special rule - you aren't likely to want to keep FF6+ troops out of combat!
On the subject of the Claws, I would make them C3+ for sure. And the bikers too (why only CC5+??)
I would suggest removing the wulfen from the list (leave that for a 13th company list). I realise they're there for fun and character reasons, but they shouldn't really be part of the Space Wolf army.
As for the Mjolnir, I'd be happy to see a SW variant of something, but a volcano cannon on a LR chassis just seems unlikely to me. The reason for suggesting the shadowsword is simply because of the Leman Russ precident.
Lord =I=
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Lord Inquisitor
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:12 pm |
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Incidentally, I actually like the list a lot... I like the idea of compulsory characters like the Chaos list, it fits very well.
I would suggest you make two types - "Space Wolf Commander" and "Iron Priest" - that'll clean up your list a lot. Then you can specify that Commanders are Battle Leader, Rune Priest or Wolf Priest, or even put all three in the same datafax like SM.
Also, I would lose the exterminator formation or the upgrade. Personally I would lose the formation and leave it as an upgrade only - keeps it from feeling like, well, a Leman Russ company!
Oh yeah, I would perhaps suggest for the long fangs putting either missile launchers and lascannon or missile launchers and plasma cannon - the launcher is kind of the archetype SM heavy weapon. Or swap one for heavy bolters, either. However common las/plas may be on the battlefields of 40K, heavy bolters and missile launchers are much more fitting.
Lastly, I think FF3+ is a bit much for the Russ, FF4+ would be fine.
Lord =I=
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:53 am |
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Alright here it is, V1.4 of the list. Some revisions, a few of the special rules stripped out or re-written. Lemme know what you think. I'm hoping that this one will be a playable list and someone will have interest to try it out.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:18 pm |
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| Quote (Drugo @ 18 May 2006 (14:44)) | first of all: nice list! 
now some comments/suggestions on the v1.4
- Fenrisian Wolves seem too strong (+1A FF/+2A CC), they are just wolves after all... i would make them just +1A CC, and lower Character costs to 75 each (they are about 100 right now)
- I'm unsure about the Storm Caller ability... maybe just making it a FF Disrupt attack? (calling the storm on the opposing formation rather than own formation)
- Make the Venerable Dreadnought just a Character upgrade with Inspiring, Leader, Fearless and Reinforced Armour
- Ditch the Blood Claws on foot, leave them only as jump-packed (Blood Claws) and bike-mounted troop (Blood Claws Bikers)... they are somewhat redundant with the Grey Hunters.
- Plasma Cannon stats are AP4+/AT4+, Slow-firing (from the Leman Russ Demolisher stats)
hope to be of some help... keep up the good work!  |
Fenrisian Wolves are supposed to be vastly faster then normal foot troops, in fact they're faster then most vehicles are in 40K. The idea here is that when the leader is in fire-fight range the wolves will close to melee and attack while the rest of the unit lends fire-support. +2 CC is probably a bit too good, yeah. I'll drop it back to +1 CC. How do other people feel about these? Too good?
On Storm Caller: This one's been a bit of an issue straight from the start... The Space Wolves are likely the only group in the game which use their powers in a defensive manner (well some Eldar do, too). THeir only psyker power is designed for use as a defensive ability. I had considered for a while letting him add First Strike to the unit he joined, to represent them coming in under pouring rain and striking at the enemy when the enemy can't really see them. If anyone has any ideas on if this would be good ro not, let me know.
Ven Dreads: I wanted the Venerable Dreadnoughts to be a bit better in CC and FF range... Since their functional skill compared to a normal dreadnought is like the difference between a Terminator and a normal Space Marine (actually it's more, something more like a Commander compared to a normal Marine). It just didn't feel right for them to be only as good as a normal Dreadnought in FF/CC. I'll adjust their weapon values a bit, though.
Foot-Based Bloodclaws: I like these guys as cheaper assault troops. Though you may be right about them not being good enough to be worth putting into the list. If enough other people feel this way I'll take them out. Anyone else feel they're redundent?
Plasma Cannons: Heh. I hadn't even realized that they'd been used before now... I'll swap them over to that value, not sure how well they'll do, but then I suppose they can always alternate firing to give them an AP 4+/AT 4+ shot each turn, or something. With these moving to being Not-Macro-Weapon AND Slow-Firing, does anyone have a problem with them gaining Sniper as well as the lascannons? Or would that make them too good?
Thanks for the comments!
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J0k3r
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:27 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm
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Location: Edinburgh, UK
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| Quote (Drugo @ 18 May 2006 (14:44)) | | - I'm unsure about the Storm Caller ability... maybe just making it a FF Disrupt attack? (calling the storm on the opposing formation rather than own formation) |
Id agree with this- it somehow seems better to use this on the opposing formation. Making it FF is in keeping with librarians too.
What about calling it on a formation to give them an initiative hit, ie 30cm range and -2 to initiative to represent them being assailed by the storm and hunkering down. Might be overly powerful though....
Also theres a typo with the bloodclaws- still got headstrong listed instead of unblooded.
I really like this list by the way, and think its going in a good direction. Keep up the good work!
_________________
"Do not offend the Chair Leg of Truth; it is wise and terrible."
-Spider Jerusalem
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:32 pm |
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Ok. I have it up to v1.5 now. Some changes to the list, and a few changes to the characters. Changed the Wolf Scouts a bit to make them slightly better at range, so there may be SOME reason not to always use them for assaults now amongst other things.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Space Wolves Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 5:00 pm |
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Wow... Up for 2 days and only 5 downloads and no new comments.. I'm not sure, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
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