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Updated Nid v7.0 list |
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| Tactica |
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241 |
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| semajnollissor |
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA |
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A lot of the changes are due to the initial plan for the nid list drawn up by JJ at the beginning.
For example if you look at the specialest games website and the V3.00 list we didn't have any variation in the Bio tanks. ?They were all just Bio tank. ?So we have come some way with the four we have.
With the malefactor losing its transport cap[acity that was part of the design brief. ?JJ didn't want the list to be just a bio version of any othe rlist, thus Bio APCs went (I personnaly think it is a shame and the BL has kept them so we should).
With the Trygon. ?What you are looking at is the lastest itteration of the Barbed Hierodule. ?As you can see, it isn't barbed nor is it a hierodule. ?I belive that Jaldon (Who I'm sure only got the job because he shares an itital with JJ
) is going to swap its TK attacks with the scythed Hierodules MW attacks. ?Since the Hierodule is stronger. ?It is also a WE because that is what it is in IA:4 a 1 mass point 5 wound WE.2. ?Why not call a duck a duck and a Dactylis a Dactylis? ?I have heard the reason that specialist games is coming out with new designed models so all the old models and names are inconsequential. ?That reasoning is total BS because the rule designers have given new names to new creatures that have NO REFERENCE WHATSOEVER to existing models. ?Also, its been almost 4 years since SG said they were working on new models. ?At that rate we could be on version 25.4 of the "experimental rules". ?Please use the names we have been playing with for the past 10 years.
Out of all the old Bio tanks the Dactylis was the one we were told wasn't allowed back. ?It was a bad looking model (a plucked chicken throwing tomatoes). ?The name change was to get it snuck past the over sight committe, which like any group of managers (must be) is dumber than a grot after a week long bender.
3. ?Unique weapon details have been totally lost in favor of generic "pyro acid spray" and "giant claw". ?A Hierophant model comes with 5 different weapons, why not use them. ?Whatever happened to ripper tentacles, Bio cannons, Spore pods, floating spore mines, Razor claws, Tunnelling abilities of trygon, and others.
Everything in E:A has become slightly more generic. ?The Hierophant new sleeker look is also for army flavour. ?They are close assault with the Bio titans their for anti titan work, thus the generic weapons fit. ?Variable weapons fit will be for a Bio tian swarm list, if it ever gets done (heres hoping)
As for ther Tyrgon's tunneling ability, I thought that was a recnet addition from FW, making it the Daddy of the Raveners. ?I've been working on my own version of the Tunnelingrules, but haven't got past the second draft yet. ?If you want a look PM me.
4. ?Did the tyranids need another larger biotitan? ?I wont even get into the logistics of a living creature of this size other than to say even a hierophant was pushing the boundry of plausability. ?The only reason in game terms for including another larger titan was because the rules neutered the hierodule and as such dropped the hierophant to lesser titan status. ?Therefore creating a gap that had to be filled with A)a totally invented creature that has no background in the fluff. B) a creature for witch there is no available model, or even a good proxy. ?C) a name that doesn't even fit with the titan naming scheme. ie "Hiero" means sacred or holy, "Hydra" means water creature or a mythical many headed snake. ?Hierophant translates to sacred elephant, Hydraphant means either water elephant or many headed elephant which doesn't make much sense. ?the current writers of this army list continue to perpetrate the Hydraphant fallacy.
I'll trust anyone on the root of words so I'll believe you when you say my scythed limbed killing machine is a water elephant. ?As for having two bio titans, we alwayd did. ?The Hierodule and Hierophant. ?FW then downsized the Hierodule into a Super heavy Bio tank. ?Thus the Hierophant became the old Hierodule and the old Hierophant got a new name the Hydraphant (welm I think so, the name bit always confuses me ?
)These new revisions are not really taking into account what was flawed in the E:A tyranid army list from the beginning. ?The near total ignoring of established tyranid history and models. ?Thanks for reading, and let the flames begin.
Establsihed history, what are you talking about? ?This is a GW product there is no history that can't be ignored/changed (I'm sure the next edition of 40K will have Horus winning ?
).But seriously. ?We are trying to get the list correct according to old history and newer history (to make the conversion for 40K players easier, or to keep the powers that be happy. One of the two).
And finally two things.
1) We don't believe in flames on the nid board, Pyro acid works much better
2) Welcome to the reclimation pool ?
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Tyranid air marshal
| LEGION3000 |
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:54 pm Posts: 7 |
I don't think this is where GW was going when they named the Hierophant and Hierodule. I believe they were breaking apart "Hiero" meaning High or holy. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hiero and "phant" to represent a large land creature with 4 legs. Or "dule" which is another spelling of "Duel" as in fighter. Therefore "Hydra" being a many headed beast doesn't follow the scheme. Nor does it fit with tyranids in general. Why would the hive mind create a creature with multiple heads and therefore multiple brains if it was not a synapse creature? There has never been a tyranid creature with multiple heads. Establsihed history, what are you talking about? This is a GW product there is no history that can't be ignored/changed |
Epic tyranids have been around for 10 YEARS! I would call that established history. Other than changing the look, they are the same tyranids.
We are trying to get the list correct according to old history and newer history (to make the conversion for 40K players easier, or to keep the powers that be happy
What newer models? The ones they promised us 4 years ago. You can't base a ruleset on models that don't exist or possibly never will, while excluding whole armies of models that people already own. Thats what is wrong with GW and 40K and now this list.
With the Trygon. What you are looking at is the lastest itteration of the Barbed Hierodule.
So then we are back to "what is a Trygon"?
Trying to shoehorn 40K principles into epic is a bad idea. 40k has a team of staff writers making changes rapidly and gets new models almost weekly. Epic only gets a few models released ONCE A YEAR and is almost exclusivly developed by fans. I don't see the point in sucking up to GW when they make us do all the work and then go and flip us the bird by changing the system.
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always pack the big guns
| ragnarok |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England |
Was ment to imply that GW is totally willing to turn its back on decades of established history without caring about it. We are trying to get the list correct according to old history and newer history (to make the conversion for 40K players easier, or to keep the powers that be happy |
What newer models? The ones they promised us 4 years ago. You can't base a ruleset on models that don't exist or possibly never will, while excluding whole armies of models that people already own. Thats what is wrong with GW and 40K and now this list.
I didn't say new models (Well I don't think I did) just that writing rules that will make everyone happy is difficult. We are trying to cater for everyone. Those who played when nids first appeared in epic and that that fluff as law. And newer people (or even people like me who forget the older stuff) who have been told a different version. Thus you get conflicting ideas on what a unit should be able to do.
Again with the Trygon. (this guy is going to be as much pain as the Ravenr is
)Originally we were told no Trygon. I can't remember why. Something to do with the 40K committe on a power trip I think). So we said fair enough and just had the Heirodule. A bit alter on we brought in its variant the barbed Heirodule. Then the new nid codex appeared and mentioned the Trygon. Then forgeworld made one.
All this time we had no communication from the 40k committee recinding their order that there will be no Trygon. We made one anyway. It then got merged with the barded Heirodule (to reuduce numbers) then the barbed got dropped and we are left with a Trygon that looks like something.
Also the Trygon is a useful example of the blending of different itterations of the same beast. The old epic version hd a long range bio electic shock weapon. The new 40K version has a range equal to its charge range. Which do we go for?
The old "proper" version, or the one that melds with the 40k version so theoir comittee will let it though.
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Tyranid air marshal
| semajnollissor |
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA |
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| Tactica |
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241 |
ROFLMAO - oh, this is an Epic moment. (I'm cryin!) _________________ Rob |
| FarSeerElandrieth |
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 5:52 pm Posts: 156 Location: Yarmouth, ME ?USA |
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| Cobalt |
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| ragnarok |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England |
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| nealhunt |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA |
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| Jaldon |
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year. |
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| stugmeister |
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