Support your local Game Store? |
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wargame_insomniac
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store?  Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:44 pm |
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Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Quote (primarch @ 05 May 2006 (23:15)) | | Quote (dafrca @ 04 May 2006 (22:36)) | Although I agree with Primarch 99.5%, I do want to make one point.
While you don't owe them anything as a retailer, you do owe your friends honesty.
Regardless what you do, do not try and pretend you did not make a choice. ?If you elect to support one store over the other, be honest and stand by your choice. That means even if you run into the other and they ask about your not going by.
If you do try and support both, do not worry about it. That is your right.
OK, enough of my rant. ?
dafrca |
Hi!
Personally, I have given up on LGS. The internet is my sole provider now.
Online stores have everything I could ever want all the time and at a hefty discount.
In business you adapt.. or die. LGS are rapidly becoming obsolete IMO.
Primarch |
I just wish that we had in UK the sort of LGS that you get as standard in the US. It seems to be the exception rather than rule that LGS in UK have gaming tables, apart from GW stores.
Then again it might be simply that I live and work in Central London where space is at a premium and thus provincial LGS can have more space for gaming tables, which would take up space of sellable stock.
Like Primarch I tend to buy most of my gaming stuff from internet suppliers. I try to find someone I like dealing with & then stick with them unless the savings of other suppliers are much greater.
Cheers
James
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Bombot
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:00 pm |
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Location: Reading, UK
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The UK is more a club-based rather than store-based scheme as far as I can tell. Big empty halls are easy to find, rent money for big stores is not.
As to the original post, the truth is I?d go where suits me best but if both stores are about equal I?d have to go with the original store. Not checking out whether a game store already exists in a town is just daft if you?re planning to open one.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:09 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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| Quote (dafrca @ 06 May 2006 (04:25)) | | Quote (primarch @ 05 May 2006 (15:15)) | | In business you adapt.. or die. LGS are rapidly becoming obsolete IMO. |
I sort of agree. The LGS has entered a new phase of life. They will adapt or die, true. But I do not agree it does not have a place. The LGS can offer quite a lot to the local players etc, if they elect to do so.
The successful store going forward will be a clean, professional workplace. It will understand the need to expand their coverage into other fields besides just games. It will treat clients like clients, not someone who is interrupting their game/conversation about their 45th level Druid/Fighter/thief. Special orders will be not only accepted, but encouraged. Game areas will be well lit and clean. Rules of behavior will be posted and enforced. Gone will be the dirty, unkempt dark dudgeons of the past. Parents will feel comfortable with allowing their 12-14 year olds to be near the employees of the store.
Bottom line is any real store who wants to know how to look need only look at the GW store near my house. If they want to see how it should not be done, just visit the LGS here.
dafrca |
I agree with this completely. A friend of mine ran 2 successful stores doing exactly that. His downfall came when he opened a store in a shopping mall. Even then, that location stayed break-even and he was planning another store. Then local road construction severely hindered mall traffic. Several stores near him closed, further reducing foot traffic and the store went into the red, taking his entire operation with it.
However, he ran clean well-lit stores, had a selection of more mainstream games (everything from collector chess sets to "How to Host a Murder" games), and generally went out of his way to make any parents that came through the door comfortable about his operation.
If he had stuck with lower-overhead locations, he'd probably still be in business and turning a decent profit.
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Neal
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primarch
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:22 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (dafrca @ 05 May 2006 (23:25)) | | Quote (primarch @ 05 May 2006 (15:15)) | | In business you adapt.. or die. LGS are rapidly becoming obsolete IMO. |
I sort of agree. The LGS has entered a new phase of life. They will adapt or die, true. But I do not agree it does not have a place. The LGS can offer quite a lot to the local players etc, if they elect to do so.
The successful store going forward will be a clean, professional workplace. It will understand the need to expand their coverage into other fields besides just games. It will treat clients like clients, not someone who is interrupting their game/conversation about their 45th level Druid/Fighter/thief. Special orders will be not only accepted, but encouraged. Game areas will be well lit and clean. Rules of behavior will be posted and enforced. Gone will be the dirty, unkempt dark dudgeons of the past. Parents will feel comfortable with allowing their 12-14 year olds to be near the employees of the store.
Bottom line is any real store who wants to know how to look need only look at the GW store near my house. If they want to see how it should not be done, just visit the LGS here.
dafrca |
Hi!
I agree on your points. However thier requires a "quantum shift" in the mentality of most people who run hobby store. Attitudes which in my experience with game store owners is in short supply.
Oddly enough, I see more of those essential business "acumen" in online game store owners than brick and mortar stores. Which just makes it worse for the LGS.
I have traveled far and wide and visited many stores. I have only found TWO that I'd say are a model others should emulate. The rest are places I doubt even exsist anymore.
Primarch
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primarch
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:25 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 08 May 2006 (07:44)) | | Quote (primarch @ 05 May 2006 (23:15)) | | Quote (dafrca @ 04 May 2006 (22:36)) | Although I agree with Primarch 99.5%, I do want to make one point.
While you don't owe them anything as a retailer, you do owe your friends honesty.
Regardless what you do, do not try and pretend you did not make a choice. ?If you elect to support one store over the other, be honest and stand by your choice. That means even if you run into the other and they ask about your not going by.
If you do try and support both, do not worry about it. That is your right.
OK, enough of my rant. ?
dafrca |
Hi!
Personally, I have given up on LGS. The internet is my sole provider now.
Online stores have everything I could ever want all the time and at a hefty discount.
In business you adapt.. or die. LGS are rapidly becoming obsolete IMO.
Primarch |
I just wish that we had in UK the sort of LGS that you get as standard in the US. It seems to be the exception rather than rule that LGS in UK have gaming tables, apart from GW stores.
Then again it might be simply that I live and work in Central London where space is at a premium and thus provincial LGS can have more space for gaming tables, which would take up space of sellable stock.
Like Primarch I tend to buy most of my gaming stuff from internet suppliers. I try to find someone I like dealing with & then stick with them unless the savings of other suppliers are much greater.
Cheers
James |
Hi!
Dont be so quick to with the "US" standard was yours too.
As I have mentioned before I have the "weird" habit of visiting most stores in a region I visit. Even when on vacation or business.
While there may be a lot of stores with in-store tables. Very few make an enviorment that I'd bother being at, much less support.
For every 20 stores I have visited, perhaps one makes me want to go in again....
Primarch
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dafrca
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:37 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
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Location: Burbank, CA, USA
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| Quote (primarch @ 08 May 2006 (18:22)) | I agree on your points. However thier requires a "quantum shift" in the mentality of most people who run hobby store. Attitudes which in my experience with game store owners is in short supply.
Oddly enough, I see more of those essential business "acumen" in online game store owners than brick and mortar stores. Which just makes it worse for the LGS. |
I agree, most willnot have what it takes to get there. I did not mean to disagree with you that most are doomed to die just as the Dinos did. Their time is past and I do not see most doing it. I just have seen a couple make efforts along the line I was speaking about and for those few, I hink there is a future. 
Your point about the on-line stores is true, but to be fair, there are as many bombs, but we do not see them as much. "Fly By Night" online stores come and go before we know they have existed.
I think of the flood of "Magic" card stores on line at one point. Most died within a few years. Online offers a much lower berrier to entry but a much quicker exit as well. 
In any case, I think we agree, without changes, major changes, many of the FLGS that exist today will not be there a year from now.
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:45 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 08 May 2006 (18:25)) | While there may be a lot of stores with in-store tables. Very few make an enviorment that I'd bother being at, much less support.
For every 20 stores I have visited, perhaps one makes me want to go in again.... |
5%, you are being nice now.
I agree, I have had the opportunity to visit quite a few different stores. Most were dark dungeons that needed a good cleansing by fire. Of the remaining, only a couple looked like places I would ?want? to hang out in.
But are we the main support for the LGS Primarch? Or is it that 14 year old who has no where to hang out and goes over to the store to play 40k with his friends? Some of those dirty, filthy, junk piles had quite a few ?kids? playing 40k. And in some cases, they had quite a few kids buying the latest fad army etc.
On-line stores will have a hard time offering that ?belonging? that the FLGS can (note I said can, not always does) offer.
Just a thought.
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
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Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:37 pm |
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Let's not forget that simply having a welcoming gaming environment is sufficient to stay afloat. A few years ago I went into a particular hobby store for the first time (during the E40k era). It was kind of small, but the owner had two gaming tables, both of which were packed with kids (teenagers), and a good supply of GW stuff. I commented to the owner that I was glad to see that his tables were well used. He replied, sure it's great, but it would be even better if they would buy something. The next time I drove buy this store, less than a year later, he was closed for good.
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primarch
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:23 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (dafrca @ 08 May 2006 (21:37)) | | Quote (primarch @ 08 May 2006 (18:22)) | I agree on your points. However thier requires a "quantum shift" in the mentality of most people who run hobby store. Attitudes which in my experience with game store owners is in short supply.
Oddly enough, I see more of those essential business "acumen" in online game store owners than brick and mortar stores. Which just makes it worse for the LGS. |
I agree, most willnot have what it takes to get there. I did not mean to disagree with you that most are doomed to die just as the Dinos did. Their time is past and I do not see most doing it. I just have seen a couple make efforts along the line I was speaking about and for those few, I hink there is a future. ?
Your point about the on-line stores is true, but to be fair, there are as many bombs, but we do not see them as much. "Fly By Night" online stores come and go before we know they have existed.
I think of the flood of "Magic" card stores on line at one point. Most died within a few years. Online offers a much lower berrier to entry but a much quicker exit as well. ?
In any case, I think we agree, without changes, major changes, many of the FLGS that exist today will not be there a year from now.
dafrca |
Hi!
There are many lousy online stores, but they seem to get clean out pretty fast (except for New Wave, man those guys are resilient!).
I think actual brick and mortar stores may be few, but those that do "make it"will be paragons amongst their kind. Stores with good stock, great customer service, their own internet portal and very proactive.
The downside is not everyone will have such a store close to them physically.
Well see what the future hold and how they adapt. It will be interesting.
Primarch
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primarch
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:27 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (dafrca @ 08 May 2006 (21:45)) | | Quote (primarch @ 08 May 2006 (18:25)) | While there may be a lot of stores with in-store tables. Very few make an enviorment that I'd bother being at, much less support.
For every 20 stores I have visited, perhaps one makes me want to go in again.... |
5%, you are being nice now. ?
I agree, I have had the opportunity to visit quite a few different stores. Most were dark dungeons that needed a good cleansing by fire. Of the remaining, only a couple looked like places I would ?want? to hang out in.
But are we the main support for the LGS Primarch? Or is it that 14 year old who has no where to hang out and goes over to the store to play 40k with his friends? Some of those dirty, filthy, junk piles had quite a few ?kids? playing 40k. And in some cases, they had quite a few kids buying the latest fad army etc.
On-line stores will have a hard time offering that ?belonging? that the FLGS can (note I said can, not always does) offer.
Just a thought. ?
dafrca |
Hi!
Hehe, LOL! Yes, perhaps 5% IS too generous....
I really dont know anymore exactly WHO LGS should cater too. The 14 year old crowd is fickle, VERY fickle. I've seen too many stores go under trying to cater to this crowd.
Most successful stores seem to balance their customer base. Wise choice, but difficult to obtain in pratice.
My gut tells me that the base should be older customers with better defined interest, with a shell of "variable" targets of more fickle interests.
Primarch
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primarch
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:29 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 09 May 2006 (09:37)) | | Let's not forget that simply having a welcoming gaming environment is sufficient to stay afloat. A few years ago I went into a particular hobby store for the first time (during the E40k era). It was kind of small, but the owner had two gaming tables, both of which were packed with kids (teenagers), and a good supply of GW stuff. I commented to the owner that I was glad to see that his tables were well used. He replied, sure it's great, but it would be even better if they would buy something. The next time I drove buy this store, less than a year later, he was closed for good. |
Hi!
All too true.
Its not packing the tables that keeps you in business...
..its packing the register....
Primarch
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dafrca
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:22 am |
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Location: Burbank, CA, USA
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| Quote (primarch @ 09 May 2006 (17:23)) | | The downside is not everyone will have such a store close to them physically. |
I think this has been true through most, if not all, the history of the industry.
I know I have never had a game store close to me (defined as less then 50 miles) until I was married and moved to Burbank.
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:26 am |
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| Quote (primarch @ 09 May 2006 (17:29)) | Its not packing the tables that keeps you in business...
..its packing the register.... |
Too true. This is the same issue I have at work. We have a creative department that believe cost is of no issue as long as you win industry awards for your design. We are trying to help them understand that the awards do not pay the bills.
Oh well, the world does need it's pound of flesh. 
dafrca
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Support your local Game Store? Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:27 pm |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 10 May 2006 (03:22)) | | Quote (primarch @ 09 May 2006 (17:23)) | | The downside is not everyone will have such a store close to them physically. |
I think this has been true through most, if not all, the history of the industry.
I know I have never had a game store close to me (defined as less then 50 miles) until I was married and moved to Burbank.
dafrca |
I've been spoiled in that respect. When I was growing up I had a toy or hobby store about a mile from home. The hobby store that opened in my hometown when I was 13 is open to this day, 31 years later. Although it's no longer within walking distance for me since moving to an adjacent town, it's only about a 20 minute drive away.
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