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[ 13 posts ]

Gue'senshi v7.3
Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:43 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	Hi! EDIT: Now that v4.4 of the Tau list is up, I have a revision of the Gue'senshi list to match. EDIT: V7.3 is available here A playtesting thread for previous editions of the list is here, I'll be putting reports for this edition when I get some games in! As always, please let me know what you think! Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Steele	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:20 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am Posts: 423 Location: Duisburg , Germany	Quote (Nerroth @ 02 Jan. 2006 (22:43)) Hi! I was waiting for the next Vaulted list to go up, so I can keep the Tau units and costs in sync, so this is still a WIP (the proper v7 will be up when the Vaulted list is updated). It's available here and here! I have made a few modifications to the list, as well as returning to an old idea from a previous list, which I am trying to approach from a new direction... Please let me know what you think! (And CS, could you please sticky this, if you don't mind?) Gary Hi, downloaded your list right now. I?ll try it tomorrow. Even with a non fully painted Force. Cheers! Steele _________________ Quid pro Quo
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:08 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	CyberShadow, could you re-title this thread 'Gue'senshi v7' please? EDIT: Thanks! And Steele, have fun with the list! Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Honda	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:25 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Gary, I downloaded the list and will check out. Would you mind posting lists you have used in recent games? Preferably, 2700 and 4000 points if you have them. Thanx! _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:07 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	Well, the last lists I used were with the old list (and the old Regimental HQ), but from what I can remember off-hand I took, for 3500 pts: 1 (old) Regimental HQ, 1 Airborne Grenadier Company + Valkyries, 1 Vulture squadron, 1 regular Grenadier formation, 1 Tank company, 1 Tetra + Piranha formation, 1 Stingray formation, 2 Morays (Ion Phalanx config) and 1 Baneblade. EDIT: There's a thread of my playtesting with v6.1 here, if you want to see what I got up to... But I'd encourage you to see what you can make from the list at 2700 and 4000 - I playtest the list at 3500 myself. Plus I'm waiting for the local game guild to get back up and running for more playtesting! Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:43 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	OK, I have a few ideas for what I will revise for 7.1 (it's mostly a tidying-up exercise at this stage, I hope - please tell me if you feel otherwise!): *Let the Regimental HQ take Tetras and/or Piranhas as well as the existing options available. *Allow three Company Upgrades per core company, instead of two. *umm... Nothing springs to mind at the moment (a good sign, I hope!) Also, if any of you would like to give an overview of v7 as it stands, please do so, though I know it seems like not much is happening right now... Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:47 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	I've posted v7.1 of the list, I have made a few tweaks to the previous edition, I'll be playtesting 7.1 twice next week (2 Epic games! Yay!) CS, could you please change the title of the thread? Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	Hi! V7.2 is now available at this link, if you are interested! Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Tactica	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:57 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Took a peak... Nerroth, I see this list as the best of both worlds between IG and Tau. Very powful list. Tank co's, storm troopers in valkyries, vultures, and tau big air power. Something I noticed that just seemed odd was that Grenedier melta guns (instead of plasma guns) and melta guns only have a 12" range in 40K unlike plasma guns that have a 24" range in 40K. However, you gave the grenadiers a 15cm range in Epic! Melta is usually associated with MW in Epic too. Yours is not. So, don't know if you really meant plasma at 15cm or melta with MW. There seems to be an inconsistency. This list definitely has some assault potential Regimental HQ looks ugly aboard a manta drop or orca assault. Especially when supported with this kind of firepower. The list looks fun, but very very powerful for an E:A standard. The 0-1 restricted entries are interesting, but I wonder if those formations really belong in the list if they are 0-1 it means they are rare and probably shouldn't be part of the norm. If you could force yourself to make hard decisions of cutting 0-1 or making them standard in the list, I wonder how that would shape the list. Maybe put "only 1 of these for X of these" if you want to incorporate a 'limiting' nature. I think you should strive to eliminate all of the 0-1 choices though. At 2700 points, it seems like I'd get anything and everything I'd want out of the list now anyway - and tourny games are the key... well, if you wish for this to go beyond a fan list anyway. If its just to remain a fan list, then I think some hard decisions to reduce some of the power in the list are going to have to be made. Also, things like XV29 really start to diverge from any established core design philosophy. That could become very problematic. Its one approach to constrain yourself to using portions of other lists, but adding in your own new formations and unit types on top of that is really getting into muddy waters if you aspire to see this get into the vault. Also, it looks like you leave out units from other lists from this one. I'd strive to get this list 'complete' if you want to see it tested more. That way, you have a single army withing the single confines of this document. No 'cross referencing' constantly. Anyway, all opinion based feedback, so don't know if any of it is relivent. Cheers Nerroth, _________________ Rob
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:26 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	Regarding cross-referencing, the list here is no more demanding than most of the variant lists in the Vault already. Since the IG list is in the EA book, one would only need to print a copy of Tau 4.4 to match up - and when I get around to doing a reference sheet for these guys, it will have the other units you need on there. Anyone got a good template for reference sheets? Regimental HQ: When I was first doing this list, I had an idea of using Spyre hunting rigs as an elite choice for the list - to tie in with the idea of their being produced by the Tau. Jervis said that since the Tau Codex was released, we weren't allowed to draw from Necromunda anymore - since they want to keep them separate as IP items should any computer game rights become available. But, I wanted to add something a little unique to the list, and the XV29 to me is a way of doing so without gong too overboard. Meltaguns: I hadn't noticed the melta bit as usually needing to be MW - which it isn't in this case - I was splitting the AT/AP ability of the Grenadiers (in comparison to Storm Troopers) to compensate for the weaker AT ability of the Infantry formations. I guess referring to them as Plasma guns instead wouldn't be a problem when I update the list again... except that the reason why I went with Meltaguns was that plasmas are less effective against vehicles! I'll have to chew this one over. 0-1 restrictions: If it seems like there is no real need for having either Fore Warriors or Scorpionfish in the list, I'll drop them for v8. Regarding the likes of Tiger Sharks and Morays, I would say that they are available to each force in theatre (Hunter Cadre and Gue'senshi Company alike) and are deployed where necessary - but I want to keep the numbers allowed down. Too powerful? I remember hearing issues about my dropping any artillery from the list (which was quite deliberate) and how that would impact the list (it's made games against Eldar very cat-and-mousey!) but I haven't found the list to be too powerful - since I have only won once with them, in any iteration - but then again I'm not the best Epic player around! If you wouldn't mind trying them out, I would be interested to hear if you find them more effective than I do... EDIT: I just noticed a few of the unit restrictions had not been carried over properly - grrr... I'll fix them now. Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Nerroth	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:40 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	After Tactica's note (and a few errors I made in the list...oops) v7.3 is now up! Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Xisor	Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:58 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	In relation to what was mentioned in the Tau names thread, I was thinking about 'senshi'. It is recognisably Japanese, well, it wouldn't be hard to find[unlike Bentu'sin!]. I was mulling it over, and I thought: Gue'shas'vesa. It's a complicated term, but I think it works. It describes the professional fighting aspect of humans in the Greater Good, those that are truly worthy of the title Shas [like how Vespids are typically fully integrated alongside Tau forces, unlike Kroot], and differentiates them from those that are simply 'human helpers'. Currently I'm returning to th Gue'senshi with a bit more of an open mind [having not looked at it since a wee whiley after returning from Ireland], I'm prepared too jump in with a bit of a gusto. At this stage, I've also learnt a few lessons from my work on the Epic: Dark Eldar, so any input may be slightly more useful. [Not only that, but I've finally got to a 'happy medium' with all things Epic *except* for AirCraft, so this could be my baptism by fire here...] EDIT: A quick note- Perhaps look at altering the formation sizes to be more inline with the Tau 'ethos' of having small-but-effective Cadres, not regiments. The formations are still strict derivatives of the Imperial workings with Tau 'mod-cons', if I'm not mistaken [which I usually am]. To propose adding a bit of a further weakness to the list, if only to stylise it more rather than address balance issues: - Reduce formation sizes - Mount some Tau weapons on the Leman Russ formation. These *could* allow leave from 0-1 status and become, perhaps, support companies in their own right. Eg 4 Russ per company rather than a fully fledged battle-formation. The weapons change for the Russ could be SMS Sponsons backed by a Lascannon 'hull mount', suitably changed from the "standard" Imperial Patterns. I'll get back with more later. Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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Nerroth

Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.3 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:00 am

Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada

About the name: Since the reorganisation of the Kleistian armed forces following Kleist?s entry into the Tau Empire, the human armed forces were less enthusiastic than those from the post-Damocles colonies to settle for the, to their ears, slightly derogatory term of Gue?vesa. In keeping with the Por caste?s ability to accommodate local sensibilities, it was agreed to refer to the human armed forces as Gue?senshi, with rank references akin to those of the Tau castes. Name-wise, I have no problem with Japanese inspirations for Tau terms: if Irish is good enough for Eldar words, why not? Regarding the issue of using reginental style organisations: Upon examination of the technology level, combat doctrines and technical expertise available on Kleist, a feasibility study by the Fio caste has found that the humans of the Kleist system would be a prime candidate for incorporation of Tau technology levels. Further, such incorporation would allow them to considerably benefit the sum total of armed forces available for the tau?va. However, such a full-scale conversion would take decades to develop the infrastructure, and perhaps generations to reform the education systems, as well as raise a suitable number of human scientists and engineers capable of comprehending the level of technology required. Also, given the familiarity with the vehicles, weapons, armour and tactics currently present among the Kleistian armed forces, it seemed prudent to gradually phase in more advanced technologies and more refined combat tactics. This would allow the new members of the Empire to serve the greater good without having to wait decades for their world?s transformation to be finalised.

In the centuries to come, it's likely that the Kleistian armed forces will be more like their colleagues in the Fire Caste, but for the time being regiments, not cadres, are the way to go - plus the whole point is that the Grenadiers offer a unique strategic option to larger Tau forces, such as part of a Coalition, in an operational theatre.


Gary