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Focus of this list?
clausewitz
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:05 pm 
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Just for the record... I participated in the "Field Guns Debate" on the old forums, and one of the major reasons for keeping them was the desire/need for a unit that could occupy buildings/ruins/woods etc and hold that ground.  Thus field guns that are infantry.  (Though personally I wouldn't have chosen the Mole Mortar)
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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:09 am 
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Well, I guess I don't mind them being infantry guns, I just think they are kind of low-tech/wonky-tech. Now, if they were energy-based field guns - then I'd be totally onboard with them. Of course, aside from the rapier, I don't guess there are any in the current fluff. But all else being equal, give me a plasma howitzer or a laser destroyer over mole mortars and thud guns any day. Maybe the AMTL could subsume the big guns form the squat list, surely that won't tick anyone off at all :/

Also, the arguement that infantry-based field guns are needed to hold difficult terrain is somewhat negated by the fact that these things always have their transports with them. Ditto the ability for them to garrison.

[OT] Maybe we could also sneak in the Ryza-pattern Russ into the list as a 0-1 upgrade to the Russ company [/OT]
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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:25 pm 
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Quote (semajnollissor @ 16 Mar. 2006 (18:09))
Well, I guess I don't mind them being infantry guns, I just think they are kind of low-tech/wonky-tech. Now, if they were energy-based field guns - then I'd be totally onboard with them. Of course, aside from the rapier, I don't guess there are any in the current fluff. But all else being equal, give me a plasma howitzer or a laser destroyer over mole mortars and thud guns any day. Maybe the AMTL could subsume the big guns form the squat list, surely that won't tick anyone off at all :/

The Rapier Laser Destroyer and the Tarantula (mounting lascannons) both are energy weapon systems.  The Thudd Gun and the Mole Mortar use ammo.

[OT] Maybe we could also sneak in the Ryza-pattern Russ into the list as a 0-1 upgrade to the Russ company [/OT]


OK, I'll bite.  What is a Ryza-pattern Russ?  A Russ, is a Russ, is a Russ.  Now, might you instead be refering to the Executioner?

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:38 pm 
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That's the one. A Russ by any other name, has no plasma cannon.

As for the Rapier and Tarantula, they're okay, but they're not big. I'm talking about the laser destroyer from the Destroyer tank hunter, without the tank. I'm taking about the plasma cannon from the executioner without the Russ. Big guns, like the Squats had. Anything else would just seem meh to me.
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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:06 pm 
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Neal as far as I can remember you've pretty much always been aguanst this list, I dont think changing it so you couldnt take just one titan would change your opinion at all as a matter of fact as I recall you've almost always argued that the lists primary downfall for being allowed to be GT worthy was that it could take too many titans, not that it could be pointed out with too few.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:23 pm 
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Grim:  I'm not "against the list."

I think all the WE-oriented lists are problematic because of the WE and GT scenario rules.

I also happen to think that the focus of the AMTL list is too diluted and that negatively affects the flavor/feel of the list.

Those are separate issues and aren't mutually exclusive.

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:51 pm 
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okay so then if thats the case, wouldnt previous posters suggestions of simply dropping the ordinatus out of the 50% titans minimum requirement fix your concern about the one titan army you propose dillutes the titan legion feel of the list?

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:56 pm 
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as to the posibillity of more needing to be done to ballance the list for GT play, how about as a suggested modification the  AMTLs list could only hold objectives with WE's or if a small step further only with Titans specificly, surely that would be enough of an achilles heel to help ballnce out the list,,,, Just a suggestion.




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Xisor
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:21 pm 
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As an offhand and odd suggestion, to 'regain focus'. I'll explain my reasoning currently:

1- The list so far looks alot more like an Adepus Mechanicus 'army' rather than a Titan Legion list. IIRC Skitari and Ordinatus are seperate from the Collegia[?] Titanica
2- A strictly 'Titan Legion' force should be Titans[and to a degree: knights], with the rest support and allies.
3- Epic: Armageddon GT scenario still doesn't allow us players to accurately model armies representative of the 'Great Battles' of the 40k-verse.

Now, a very strict suggestion in this respect would simply be to 'cripple' the lists ability to do things:

Titan Legions [and perhaps Knights] make up the standard 'available' and unrestricted list.

Everything else goes into the 'support and allies' thirty three percent margin. It's quite simple. Skitarii, Air Support, Ordinatus all fall under the thirty three percent maximum. It makes it quite simple IMO. It means the WE focus of the list is terrifically[sp?] focused, but restricts the add-ons that can make up the list too.

I'd say, offhand, this'd be something to consider.

Xisor

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Xisor,

I like your idea.

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:34 pm 
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well it does sound crippling all right, but I intend to at least play a game to try it out and see for myself before I cry foul, If even this restriction is enough to get some of those who believe the list cant be ballanced back to dicussing how to proceed then maybe it is worthwhile to testout.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:56 pm 
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Quote (Grimshawl @ 27 Mar. 2006 (20:51))
okay so then if thats the case, wouldnt previous posters suggestions of simply dropping the ordinatus out of the 50% titans minimum requirement fix your concern about the one titan army you propose dillutes the titan legion feel of the list?

Grim:  The one-titan army was just a reference to a personal pet peeve that I had given Dysartes down the road about before.  My disagreement is more broad than that but to answer your question, yes, I think that Ordinati not counting toward the titan requirement would be good.

I've never said that AMTL and OGBM can't be balanced.  I'm just saying that it is difficult and that the fun level is somewhat questionable for some people.

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Xisor
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:38 pm 
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To clarify that suggestion to make a it a bit easier to decipher [at first reread of my suggestion I was rather vaguely :80: ] :

Titans make up at least two thirds of the list.
Everything else may make up at most one third of the list.

It may not help in the grand scheme of things, but here's hoping it's worth considering.

Xisor

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tneva82
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:29 am 
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Quote (Grimshawl @ 27 Mar. 2006 (20:51))
okay so then if thats the case, wouldnt previous posters suggestions of simply dropping the ordinatus out of the 50% titans minimum requirement fix your concern about the one titan army you propose dillutes the titan legion feel of the list?

Incidently that's what I have opted to do with my titan legion list.

It's a list about titans afterall. Last time I checked Ordinatus is not a titan  :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Focus of this list?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:58 am 
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I do agree with the feel issue - however there is a good reason in that,  at least no matter how hard I tried I could never get an 80%+ titan army to win, draws were the best i managed. So you have to broaden it a bit. Cue at this point the old 2nd ed titan legion fans who want all the old stuff in.

But hey, everyone has their own views and they were argued most vehmently on the old epic forum :)

Oh and a ryza pattern russ is clearly a Leman russ with plasma side sponsons :)

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