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Eldar Armoured Company list

 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:52 pm 
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Hey guys,

I?ve been working on an eldar tank-list, and this is what I have so far. The basic premise is that this is the standard army for a small, independent craftworld that lacks the population to field a predominately infantry-based force. Instead, they try to use vehicles as force multipliers to offset their shortcomings. For now, lets just call the Craftworld Fionn, because I don?t want to tie it to an established craftworld and then have to change things the next time GW writes new fluff.

I want to include two new units in the list, but I have not done so yet. I want both of the new units to be Grav Tank variants, but I?m not sure what role they need to fill. I have a feeling that having one with extra attacks (+1) FF would be useful, but I don?t want to add things for no good reason. I?ve already thought up a few names that could be used, but they aren?t great: Rasp, Hornet. Any help in thinking up names would be appreciated. ?

Eldar Armoured Company (Chariots of Vaul)

This army list is divided into two groups, Warhosts and Troupes. Each warhost taken allows up to two troupe selections to be taken. A limit of one third of the total point cost of the army may be aerospace formations. Eldar Armoured Company ?armies have a Strategy rating of 4. Avatars, Aspect Warriors, Revenants, Phantom Titans and Warlock Titans have an Initiative rating of 1+. All other formations have an Initiative rating of 2+.

This army follows all of the special rules for Eldar listed in the Swordwind supplement, including farsight, hit-and-run, spirit stones, lance & pulse weapons, webway portals, and garrison limitations.

Army List

Individuals

0-1 Wraithgate

The Eldar player may choose to replace one of the Objective markers in his half of the table with a Wraithgate at a cost of 50 pts.
Important Note: Wraithgates are one of the smallest type of Webway portal, and may only be used by formations made up exclusively of infantry, light vehicles, and armoured vehicle units that have the Walker ability; formations that include any other type of unit may not use a Wraithgate to enter play.

0-1 Avatar
1 Avatar (free)
In Grand Tournament games the Avatar must start off the table. At the start of any turn (including the first) they may be set up on the table within 15cms of a Farseer (this represents the Farseer summoning the Avatar to the battlefield). In the End Phase of the turn the Avatar returns to the Webway and is removed from play. Once the Avatar has left they may not return. Note that if there are no Farseers in play then the Avatar may not be used (as there will not be a Farseer that can summon them).

Warhosts

Falcon Host 425pts

8 Falcons
Up to 2 Falcons may be replaced with Firestorms at no additional cost
Alternatively, 3 Falcons may be replaced with 3 Fire Prisms for +100 pts
3 Vypers may be added to the formation for +100pts.
My thoughts: This formation is the equivalent of a tank company. The restrictions on the number of Fire Prisms/Fire Storms is to limit the number of AA shots in the formation.

Guardian Storm Host 350pts
1 Farseer unit, 7 guardians, and 4 wave serpents
1 Wave Serpents may be replaced with 2 Falcons for +75pts.
3 Vypers may be added to the formation for +100pts.
My thoughts: This formation is supposed to be the equivalent of a mechanized infantry formation. I limited the upgradeability of the guardian warhost to increase the point cost of the formation (and thus lower the overall activation count of the army).

Troupes

Guardian Defender Troupe 150pts

1 Farseer, 4 guardians, and 3 heavy weapon platforms
Up to 3 Guardians may be replaced with Support Weapon Platforms for +25pts.
3 wraithguard stands may be added for +175pts.
3 Wraithlords may be added for +175 pts.
3 Warwalkers may be added for +100 pts.
My thoughts: If all of the upgrades are taken, it becomes equivalent to an ork big gun/snappa mob. I set the base number of units at 8 and made the support platforms a swap instead of an addition so that it can be transported in a Vampire (remember that a vampire can transport weapon platforms).

Aspect Warrior 150pts
4 aspect warrior units chosen from the following list: Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Shining Spears.
An additional 2 aspect warrior units may be added to the formation for +75pts.
All units apart from Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears may be transported in Wave Serpents for +50pts each and/or Falcons for +75pts each. Enough transports must be taken to transport the entire formation.
1 aspect warrior unit may be upgraded to include an exarch for +25 pts.
My thoughts: I set the base number of units at 4 so that two formations could be transported in a Vampire. I included an option for taking two additional aspect stands because I think that this Craftworld would use the warriors they havein the same way as any other craftworld would. That means that the formation has to be able to take some punishment before it inevitably becomes ineffective.

Ranger Picket troupe 200pts
8 ranger stands
Four of the rangers stands may be replaced with four War Walkers for +25 pts
An additional four rangers stands may be replaced with four War Walkers for +25 pts
My thoughts: I wanted to prevent these guys from being a cheap activation in this list, so I figure requiring a full 8 stands is the easiest way to do that. Also, I figure including War Walkers in the formation would make it more flexible and would fit well into the background of the list.

Windrider troupe 300pts
8 jetbike stands
Any number of Jetbikes may be replaced with Vypers at no additional cost
My thoughts: The size of this troupe was increased to bump up the point cost.

Falcon troupe 250pts
5 Falcons
Up to two Falcons may be replaced with Firestorms at no additional cost
Alternatively, three Falcons may be replaced with three Fire Prisms for +100 pts
My thoughts: This troupe isn?t absolutely necessary, but its inclusion won?t hurt anything. Also, I feel that not having a separate, smaller Fire Prism formation will force players to play with more tanks.

Night Spinner troupe 325pts
5 Night Spinners
My thoughts: I increased the size of this formation so that it would get 2 templates. I made it a 5-strong formation instead of a 4-strong one to allow the formation to produce 2 templates even with a BM, so the overall effectiveness of the formation wouldn?t change as much. If there is a new tank unit, it might be included in this formation if it has a barrage weapon.

Engines of Vaul troupe varies
Up to three Scorpion, Cobra, Storm Serpent or Voidspinner (or any combination of these) for 250 pts each.
My thoughts: I know some people won?t like that the Void Spinner is available to this craftworld (since it is supposed to be Biel Tan only) but given that this is supposed to be the tank-specialist craftworld, I figured it would be okay.

Aerospace Troupes
My thoughts: I didn't see any need to change the air forces any, although they might need to be limited or have a price adjustment to balance the list, I have no feel for that at this point.

0-1 Eldar spacecraft varies
One Wraithship for 150 points, or one Dragonship for 300 points

0-1 Warlock Titan 850pts
1 Warlock titan

Phantom Titan 750pts
1 Phantom titan

Revenant Titans 700pts
2 Revenant titans

Nightwing squadron 300pts
3 nightwing

Phoenix squadron 400pts
3 phoenix bombers

Vampire raider 200 pts
1 vampire

0-2 Eldar spacecraft varies
One Wraithship for 150 points, or one Dragonship for 300 points


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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:43 pm 
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So, I guess I'm the only one interested in making a tank list for the eldar?

:(

Oh well, I guess all those falcons in circulation will just be wasted. Such a pity.


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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:02 pm 
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Quote (semajnollissor @ 21 Mar. 2006 (19:43))
So, I guess I'm the only one interested in making a tank list for the eldar?

:(

For what it's worth, I do think it's a good idea. However, I don't have any time to test it. Heck, I haven't even played Eldar yet with E:A rules.  :down:

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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:30 pm 
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Quote (semajnollissor @ 21 Mar. 2006 (18:43))
So, I guess I'm the only one interested in making a tank list for the eldar?

:(

I'd be happy just to know what on earth is happening with the standard eldar!  :down:

Seems to be heaps of variants of everything around but no playtesting of core problems.

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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:46 pm 
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I think it's an interesting list.

Some things off hand strike me as odd, however:

It is supposed to be a Craftworld that offsets it's lack of peeps by fielding more tanks, yet there are a ton of formations that have large infantry compositions and they are priced close or better than regular Eldar. ?Wouldn't they be priced to be more costly?

Conversely, the tank formations you would think be priced slightly cheaper, but they aren't.

Like the idea of the Falcon Tank formation. ?

Scouts should stray away from Rangers and more toward Walkers (since you are looking to limit the number of guys on the field - each Ranger stand has 5 guys, a Walker has one).

As for the new tanks, maybe basing some off the old models and saying that the Craftworld doesn't concern itself with the aesthetics of its army as much, so it employs older tanks alongside of newer tanks. ?Then bring in some of the other models.  Give them different stats and you're done.

Void Spinners would match if you wrote your fluff to match ?:oops: In other words, write your fiction surrounding the craftworld to justify the use of the Void Spinner and then you're set.

I would price Wraithguard higher and Wraithlords lower for the purposes of fielding as few models (guys) as possible. You don't want it to be an Ulthwe look-alike.

Possibly break up the aero formations so that you have more options to field them. Ex. 2 Phoenix Bombers for 260points, or... Nightwings: 2 for 200points. ?With all these large formations, it will be good to have a 200 point option to slip in there so you arent' fielding 4800 points in a 5000 point game.

Use of a Command Falcon from Epic 40,000 would certainly fit in this.  Maybe even make it a requirement?
My thoughts. :p





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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:49 pm 
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Chariots of Vaul = cool name.

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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:14 am 
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sorry, didnt notice this before :D

engines of vaul should be a warhost (of non-variable size obviously). [its the equivelent of a superheavy tank company. you are lacking options for warhosts as it is, especially if you dont like infantry]

no infantry warhost. [or else this isnt armoured. fine have infantry in a support role (ie. troupes), but tanks should be the stars]

i wouldnt have an avatar, but i'm not really fussed. [seems like infantry thing. it emphasises the spiritual over the technical. this list is technical]

no falcon troupes, warhost only. [this is the cheap activation. absolutely needless]

no rangers. [why? these guys are about as soft and non-armoured as you can get]

add war walkers [scouts!]

EDIT: on a bizarre sidenote concerning new units, i once had a dream where swooping hawks were deployed by being fired from large launch tubes/cannons. i dont know why.  :blush:





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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:59 pm 
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The problem with infantry formations, the Eldar, and the the universe.

The way I approached this list was that I wanted it to have fewer activations than the normal craftworld list. Also, I wanted to have fewer infantry on the table. So, if you don't want to have too many infantry on the table you have to make the infantry available in the list be more expensive. For Eldar, that means you have to add extra vehicles and whatnot, since you can't add more infantry and stay true to the racial background.

Now, I also felt that there should be 2 warhosts available, just like every other craftworld has (do any have more than that or less than that?). Besides the mechanized guardians, the only other alternatives that come to mind are artillery warhosts or EoV warhosts. I discounted those two because there really aren't enough artillery tanks available to the eldar, and I don't really think that EoVs should be so freely available (I don't think you should be allowed to take an entire army of them, even if you wanted too). So, I went with the mechanized guardians, but I am open to your ideas so I'll chew on it a bit.

As it is, the pattern for Craftworld lists has been 1 specialty warhost, 1 guardian warhost. I stayed with that, only I restricted the options for the guardian host. There's no real justification for it other than i followed the pattern.

I think I'll change the ranger picket troupe to 4 rangers and 4 war walkers, with an option to exchange the 4 rangers for 4 more war walkers.

I think I'll change the windrider troupe to 4 jetbikes and 4 vypers, with the option to exchange the jetbikes for vypers on a 1-to-1 basis.

I think I'll add the option of adding 3 vypers to the Guardian warhost for +100 pts.

I want to keep the Avatar, for the simple reason that this is a craftworld list. All Craftworlds have Avatars, so this one should, too.

I want to keep the falcon troupe, I like how it gives a player the ability to take a smaller formation of tanks. Also, you'll notice that this is the only way to get fire prisms as a troupe choice.

I want to keep the guardian troupe the way it is, so that it can take advantage of the wraithgate and the Vampire. That is one of my complaints with the Saim Hann list, which forces infantry to take transports, preventing use of alternate modes of transportation.

Ditto for the Aspect troupe.

As for the aerospace formations, like I said, I have no feel for it at this point. I think they should stay as they are for now, but I have no problem with changing them in principal.

Also, please notice that troupes are restricted to 2 per warhost, instead of the normal 3 per warhost. That should make a difference big difference, given that the cheapest warhost is 350 points. If you look at the point costs of the troupe choices, that means you can have a max of 12 activation at 2700 pts, which is a much lower number than is possible with most other lists (I think the max for a Beil Tan list is 18 activation taking all guardian hosts). Of course, as with every other list, the typical number of activations will be much lower ( I figure 7-8 will be the norm, which is 1 or 2 less than a Beil Tan army - I think).


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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:38 pm 
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Quote (semajnollissor @ 22 Mar. 2006 (15:59))
The problem with infantry formations, the Eldar, and the the universe.

The way I approached this list was that I wanted it to have fewer activations than the normal craftworld list. Also, I wanted to have fewer infantry on the table. So, if you don't want to have too many infantry on the table you have to make the infantry available in the list be more expensive. For Eldar, that means you have to add extra vehicles and whatnot, since you can't add more infantry and stay true to the racial background.

Now, I also felt that there should be 2 warhosts available, just like every other craftworld has (do any have more than that or less than that?). Besides the mechanized guardians, the only other alternatives that come to mind are artillery warhosts or EoV warhosts. I discounted those two because there really aren't enough artillery tanks available to the eldar, and I don't really think that EoVs should be so freely available (I don't think you should be allowed to take an entire army of them, even if you wanted too). So, I went with the mechanized guardians, but I am open to your ideas so I'll chew on it a bit.

As it is, the pattern for Craftworld lists has been 1 specialty warhost, 1 guardian warhost. I stayed with that, only I restricted the options for the guardian host. There's no real justification for it other than i followed the pattern.

I think I'll change the ranger picket troupe to 4 rangers and 4 war walkers, with an option to exchange the 4 rangers for 4 more war walkers.

I think I'll change the windrider troupe to 4 jetbikes and 4 vypers, with the option to exchange the jetbikes for vypers on a 1-to-1 basis.

I think I'll add the option of adding 3 vypers to the Guardian warhost for +100 pts.

I want to keep the Avatar, for the simple reason that this is a craftworld list. All Craftworlds have Avatars, so this one should, too.

I want to keep the falcon troupe, I like how it gives a player the ability to take a smaller formation of tanks. Also, you'll notice that this is the only way to get fire prisms as a troupe choice.

I want to keep the guardian troupe the way it is, so that it can take advantage of the wraithgate and the Vampire. That is one of my complaints with the Saim Hann list, which forces infantry to take transports, preventing use of alternate modes of transportation.

Ditto for the Aspect troupe.

As for the aerospace formations, like I said, I have no feel for it at this point. I think they should stay as they are for now, but I have no problem with changing them in principal.

Also, please notice that troupes are restricted to 2 per warhost, instead of the normal 3 per warhost. That should make a difference big difference, given that the cheapest warhost is 350 points. If you look at the point costs of the troupe choices, that means you can have a max of 12 activation at 2700 pts, which is a much lower number than is possible with most other lists (I think the max for a Beil Tan list is 18 activation taking all guardian hosts). Of course, as with every other list, the typical number of activations will be much lower ( I figure 7-8 will be the norm, which is 1 or 2 less than a Beil Tan army - I think).

Am I blind or are their no fire prisms in the list? I am blind didn't notice them as a swap item.

Can I suggest an amendment


Fire prism host

6 Fire prisms for 500 pts

or/ and

add 3 for 250pts to the Falcon host

I must admit I prefer fire prisms to falcons anyday.






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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:24 am 
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i wouldnt worry about all EoV armies. Besides being quite cool and fun anyway, it just wouldnt happen. IG have the exact same option after all.

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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:46 am 
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What you have never faced 12 SHT, 1 regimental command and 2-500 points of goodies? :)

I think its a neat idea, but one that I am unlikely to be able to test or face for over a year.

1 comment however, why no Titans?

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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:21 am 
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Quote (banksboy1 @ 22 Mar. 2006 (16:38))
Am I blind or are their no fire prisms in the list? I am blind didn't notice them as a swap item.

Can I suggest an amendment


Fire prism host

6 Fire prisms for 500 pts

Too much AA in that formation

or/ and

add 3 for 250pts to the Falcon host

I must admit I prefer fire prisms to falcons anyday.

Well, that's where they are, except they're swapped, not added.
Same in the Falcon warhost.

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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:31 am 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 22 Mar. 2006 (20:46))
What you have never faced 12 SHT, 1 regimental command and 2-500 points of goodies? :)

I think its a neat idea, but one that I am unlikely to be able to test or face for over a year.

1 comment however, why no Titans?

The titans are at the end of the list. Since this isn't a Titan Clan list, they are still limited to 1/3 of the army's point cost.

As for those IG super heavy lists, no I haven't faced one yet, but just because Daryl hasn't gotten tired of his titans yet. I'm sure I will face such a list eventually. Lord knows he owns enough of the crazy things.

As for testing, this is just a feeler list. I probably won't get to test it much either for a while, at least until we get tired of testing the AMTL list (since I refuse to use two playtest lists in a given battle - that drives me crazy).


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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:07 am 
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I like the idea, but bits of it bother me.  It doesn't seem significantly different from the basic Biel-tan list (especially not if one takes Storm Guardians), and actually seems to restrict tank choices even more.

Biel-tan, after taking some Guardians, which you're almost always going to want for the Farseer and FF, can take Falcon Troupes, which are generally a better buy than your Falcon Warhost, since Spirit Stones allows them better BM removal, while the different point values mean you get more Falcons for the price.  They can also take Fire Prism Troupes, which you've disallowed, forcing players to take Falcons or Firestorms with their Prisms (resulting in some rather significant role confusion).

I currently try to play an Eldar armored company, and I know that I'd probably end up sticking with the basic list instead of using this.  I think it really needs something to compensate for an inability to take ground-pounding infantry (I don't mount my Guardians as is - it just seems ineffective as opposed to Wraithgating them), and restricting Prism access and giving an inefficient Falcon option doesn't seem to do that.

I think you need to move away from Guardians in order to really make the list unique.  One of the vehicles ought to be your Farseer and/or Supreme Commander, and your warhosts could consist of either Falcons or 5-strong Prism groups.


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 Post subject: Eldar Armoured Company list
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:20 pm 
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Well, I still think you aren't addressing your own fluff. I.E., there are too many models on the board.  Reducing infantry stands is the only effective way to do that.

One way you can do things is allow the army to buy a Gate of Vaul which will be big enough to allow transport of units up to Titans.  Price it high and voila! Problem solved.  

It's your list, but it doesn't match the fluff you gave it.  Right now all it strikes me as is "Big Formation Craftworld".   :80:

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