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The Termagaunt/Hormogaunt/Ravaner Terror
ayoras	Post subject: The Termagaunt/Hormogaunt/Ravaner Terror Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:04 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:44 am Posts: 52	I didn't read all the thread but when I read the first post of Jaldon I think I must answer immediatly. I find the problematic so ridiculous and pointless. We came backward at least by 10 steps. I very don't understand the way you think! It seems that you've never played any wargames in your life (I know it is wrong). It is SO obvious that in any wargame, you can make abuses from an army list. I know two others wargame with "swarmy" army. It is clear that with these armies, the best list you can make is to take only the cheapest model. Your insane number of troop will overwhelm the opponent. But it is clear too that it is just stupid to take these kind of army list. It is totally boring to play this and to play against. Moreover, I'm pretty sure that if your opponent optimize his army knowing you play Termagaunt terror, you have no chance to win (he takes ONLY BP and sniper for example, an army at least equally stupid than termagaunt terror). So what's the problem? It is also stupid to calibrate an army according to the possible abuses because if you take a "normal" list, it will be a bad list and you'll never win(logical isn't it?). I already played a couple of games with termagaunts at 10, hormogaunts 15, ravener at 20 and X2 warriors and I loose all the game. I'm not especially a bad player though. I agree that the ravener must cost 25, not 20, but the termagaunt at 10 is totally balanced. For example, compare to the lost and damned army. They can make exactly the same kind of army : for 3000 pts they take 15 covens with no upgrades, no daemon and no war engines. The termagaunts are similar to the mutants and the cultists so you will have similar army. So what's the problem? The rigth price for hormagaunts is clearly 15 too, according to theyr actual stats. The option of X2 warriors is more debatable. I don't find so unbalanced and I find it gives more synapse option for a 3000 pts list, but I see the problem. In all the case, whatever you'll decide, at least for the moment, I'll keep 10,15,25 and X2 options. _________________
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Chroma	Post subject: The Termagaunt/Hormogaunt/Ravaner Terror Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:24 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (ayoras @ 15 Mar. 2006 (14:04)) It is also stupid to calibrate an army according to the possible abuses because if you take a "normal" list, it will be a bad list and you'll never win(logical isn't it?). ayoras, I appreciate your position, but the thing you need to realize is that, in essence, point values are *only* there for use in Tournament Scenario games and that is the form of play they need to be balanced for; they can be certainly used for other types of play, but that is their core purpose. It doesn't matter if the army is boring or simple or whatnot; if it's able to win 90+% of the time in a "blind" tournment (that is, no one knows what anyone else is bringing) then it is unbalanced and needs to be corrected.  Some people go to tournaments only to win, at any cost, and the Termagant Terror army allows them to do that with relative ease.  In theory, allowing the T-Terror army into the Tournament enviroment as it now stands (well, with the twin-warrior synapes for 100) means that everyone will probably have to resort to playing Alaitoc Eldar (lotsa snipers!) or Tau Pathfinder-heavy force to compete, and I really don't think that's the way people want the game to evolve.  *laugh* Try using a proxy T-Terror army against some of your friends without telling them that's what they'll be facing, they might enjoy it at first as a challenge, but if you told that that's the only army you're ever going to field again, I think they'd stop playing against you pretty quickly. Personally, I love having variety in my armies, but the thought that the T-Terror army is valid really bothered me when I figured it out. As to the pure Coven Cultist army, well, once those units are broken, they are going to have a hard time coming back... and when they get *killed* they don't come back!  The problem with the T-Terror is that you can't break the army, ever.  And with 16+ Tyranid Warriors, you'll have a hard time destroying Synapses.  The best that's been done against it so far is a Macro-weapon Barrage heavy Black Legion force, and in 3 turns it was able to kill 4 of 8 Warrior Swarms, and it still lost. I urge you to give it a playtest and do up a report just to get a look at it on the battlefield. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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ayoras

Post subject: The Termagaunt/Hormogaunt/Ravaner Terror Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:34 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:44 am Posts: 52

But do try to be more polite. As I already in my first posts on this board, I'm not totally fluent in english. Typically, I don't totally control the tone of my sayings. Sorry for that, but I try to express myself with what I know in english. I didn't find that I was unpolite in my previous post, in all the case, it was not my purpose. The point with nids is that we ignore BMs. This combined with horde tactics is very effective.

No doubt about it. As I already say, ?It is clear that with swarmy armies, whatever the wargame, the best list you can make is to take only the cheapest model. Your insane number of troop will overwhelm the opponent. But I repeat myself :

It is also stupid (well ok it not very polite sorry, so I mean "It is pure non-sense") to calibrate an army according to the possible abuses because if you take a "normal" list, it will be a bad list and you'll never win(logical isn't it?).
Is it understoodable?

As you say : ?
Also I've played many EA games with both 15 point and 10 point termagant. And I've lost only one, but that does not automatically make Nids too strong in all cases.


PS : Another time sorry if I hurt you with what I said.

edit (after the chroma's answer, because I was longer than you to post) :

ayoras, I appreciate your position,
Thank you ^^.

I understand the "tournament vision", and I must admit that I didn't think about that. Me I play for the pleasure, not for the win. Unfortunatly, the spirit of a tournament player is not always the same...

it's able to win 90+% of the time in a "blind" tournment
The answer is simple : don't organize blind tournament.... Ok it is a pointless argument.

I have no need to playtest the TTerror to see the horrible army it is and guess the fact it's able to win 90+% of the time. I totally agree with this.

In the other wargame I speak early (confrontation to quote it), the ultimate army is X80 goblin marauders which exactly the same kind of list than TTerror. It is a tournament-legal composition. Though, in the tournament organized on this game, nobody (I say really nobody) have taken this list. Why? Well I must go so I will continue later. Sorry, I'm at work and I have a meeting. I come back soon.