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V4.4 - Jump Pack
dptdexys
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:13 pm 
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What happens to intermingled assaults against say 2 formations of scouts where they start in each others ZoCs but after counter charges both formations are still in unit coherency (20cm for scouts ) but out of Intermingled ZoCs,In games not involving Tau the 2 formations would still be part of the same assault and it would carry on as normal.

as an example :-

Player 1(SM with assault formation) declares an intermingled assault against Player 2(Guard with 2 formations of Vultures) and tries to do a clipping assault.
A ?= assault marines
T ?= tactical marines
V1 = vulture formation 1
V2 = vulture formation 2

position before assault

?A..(20cm)..V1..(9cm)..V2..(11cm)..T
?A..(20cm)..V1..(9cm)..V2..(11cm)..T
?A..(20cm)..V1..(9cm)..V2..(11cm)..T
?A..(20cm)..V1..(9cm)..V2..(11cm)..T

position after assault move by SM player and counter charges by Guard player

?A..(14cm)..V1..(14cm)..V2..(6cm)..T
?A..(14cm)..V1..(14cm)..V2..(6cm)..T
?A..(14cm)..V1..(14cm)..V2..(6cm)..T
?A..(14cm)..V1..(14cm)..V2..(6cm)..T

This would leave 2nd Vulture formation still in cohrency for counter charge moves but out of coherency for an imtermingled assault.

In this situation wouldn't both vulture formations still be classed as involved in the assault and if so does this solve one of the problems with Tau jet packs jumping away from an assault.
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dptdexys
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:22 pm 
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Just realised whilst I did the previous post that the rules for intermingled assaults means that all the formations being assaulted are treated as a single formation and have to stay in unit coherency .

Shouldn't this be the same for Tau formations when they are assaulted as intermingled,that they still have to stay in unit coherency as if 1 big formation so the Jet packed troops would still have to be in unit coherency after their withdrawal move.

If this is so I think this solves one of the problems with jet packs.
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dptdexys
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:24 pm 
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You have to move towards the enemy with counter charge, not away. So the V2 cannot move towards the tacticals. Or did I misunderstood the thing here?

What you describe could be used in situation where tacticals attack and V2 moves towards it thus being more than 10cm from V1 (which stays still). However the counter charge does not break the intermingiling so they are still part of the assault


The rule is that you counter charge the nearest enemy unit wether it is the unit assaulting or not is irrevelent

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dysartes
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:10 pm 
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Tactica> General point re new lists & FAQ's - it's better to cover as much as possible in the wording of your core list to avoid FAQs, and you should definately not be doing FAQ entries when you can tighten the wording of rules (ie, before list is finalised).

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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:16 am 
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@Dysartes,

Agreed and well met.

I was trying to say that if we were talking about a host of odd issues affecting only certain lists in certain situations, then i was thinking a FAQ would answer - if we were talking about specific issues that could be sited and affect mulitple if not all lists - then I think we should address them.

I think somebody posted a link to the old thread on SG, so I need to go back and read that, digest the issues, and consider the recomendations made to resolve at that point.

BTW All,

what are the 1) the issues and 2) the recomendations to resolve?

Cheers,




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Mephiston
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:43 am 
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I'm not really sure how this rule means you get out of CC into FF. If I read it correctly the tau makes this 10cm move before the charge move. With pre-measuring available I would allways ensure I took the 10cm move into account, when assaulting jump pack wearing troops, to keep my formation in CC. The only advantage I see is you can draw more supporting fire if you have set a trap with the jump pack unit as bait.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I've only played against Tau twice.
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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:24 pm 
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hena's got it.

If you couple Crisis with Stealth the stealth have 10cm ZOC so they will help Force a FF instead of engagement from the average 15cm charging foe, but any that charge greater will still get into CC base to base.

I find that jump pack at best allows a few more models to get into FF than base to base CC than would have been had I just stayed still - but the tau fight so bad in combat, I've yet to have jetpacks swing an engagement result to the Tau favor.

Frankly, the rule has its uses to draw enemy closer to your supporting fire, and possibly sucker him out of using his CC in exchange for his unexpected FF - but once you play against a foe that's familiar with the Tau jump pack rule - they can plan around it to have next to no impact on the game.

It has no where near the impact that an Eldar Hit&Run type bonus does.

Cheers,

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dptdexys
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:22 pm 
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Tacticas right with his comments on the jet pack,once you have used them and faced them a couple of times you will plan assaults better and learn to judge where the retreat move could go and if you could still assault after the retreat.

I think the only problem now with the jet packs is not that they are a powerful rule in anyway but how to solve if the jet pack troops retreat behind another formation stopping the assault,but as I said earlier after facing them a few times you should be able to judge if the tau could escape before you commit to an assault against them.This situation should very rarely occur if the attacker is taking notice of where he is assaulting.
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:01 pm 
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OK. So, in conclusion, the rules mechanics themselves are absolutely fine (give or take!  :;):  ) but the wording could be changed for clarity.

There is already a note about clarifying the Jet Pack rule in the update list, so I will deal with that when we get down there.

Thanks.

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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - Jump Pack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:03 pm 
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CS,

Sounds good - give it a stab and we'll take a look at it in v4.4 playtesting again. Now - for the vault update!

:)

Cheers,

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