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[ 14 posts ]

Kroot auxiliary
clausewitz	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:25 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	Hena, in comparison to the Hormagaunt I think you need to take into consideration the special rules that have a big impact on their usefulness.  The 'Nids have a number of big advantages in assault that the Kroot do no have.  The individual Hormagaunt can also be respawned.  Similarly with the Ork Commando (e.g. 1+ to engage).
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Tactica	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:58 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Hena, "What Cw said!" I encourage you to do this though. You have to take into account all the army special rules that affect the units in question. Orc bonus' to activate on doubles, orc BM management, ork bonus to engage...etc. Tyrands can respawn their dead gaunts so that one model may come back quite a few times in a turn not to mention over the course of a game. Tyranids ignore BM where kroot tally them then run. The ability to move up and dump blast markers on an emey from shooting is quite handy - it means you don't have to engage to do the damage - it means your net 'game effect' range is double your move + your guns range + any damage potential of your gun. Kroot don't shoot. Looking forward to your analysis. Cheers, _________________ Rob
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Tactica	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:47 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Quote (Hena @ 19 Feb. 2006 (23:05)) But even if you disagree to other points, it still doesn't mean that hounds price is correct. Either hounds price is lowered or kroot price goes up. Or hounds are made better to suit the current cost. My option from that was rising the price of Kroot since it's perhaps a little too small. I'll agree that presently the hounds and kroot prices don't seem to align. Raising the price of kroot will not make me play them any more though, I'll tell you that much. Outside of trying to make them work in the occassional playtest game - I don't field them. I've yet to see the Kroot make it as a staple in anyone's list that posts regularly either... so, ... _________________ Rob
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asaura	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:03 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:34 am Posts: 481	Brainstorming: The Kroot could perhaps only have FF6+. They currently have FF5+, which is pretty nice, combined with Infiltrate. They cover some real real estate with an FF threat. Granted, 5+ is not great, but it's not all bad, either.
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Xisor	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:01 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	I'm not quite sure about dropping the Kroot FF value. I mean, Kroot Mercs are a better deal with their rifles than their equivalent number of guardsmen. The only edge the guard have on them are their heavy/special weapons. To this end, I propose that Kroot be priced as they should be regarding the value of other units in the list. Why? Well, surely a unit of Fire Warriors will always feel 'instinctively' better. Kroot, unless they are relatively cheap, are a waste in a Tau army where you can have things that do their job better. If anything they need to be slightly better for their cost to make them either: 1- Useful or 2- competative with other things in the list. Kroot aren't regarded as sub par via 40k Fluff. Rather, the Tau empire use their numbers to 'hold the line'. A couple of Formations of Kroot should make an excellent garrissoning setup. Not particularly useful overall, but not simply 'bodies on the objective'. Okay, I'm arguing myself in circles without a large basis in the stats of the game.Tactica's final point is IMO the most pertinant point that's been made so far. Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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Honda

Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:12 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

I've yet to see the Kroot make it as a staple in anyone's list that posts regularly either... so, ... We actually had a fairly lengthy discussion on this observation a while back and I think the issue revolves around the Kroot "role". 1. In 40K, the Kroot have already gotten close enough to an opponent to initiate assaults before they are assaulted. They are also a unit that operates well (ignores woods for the most part) in a heavily wooded environment. Hence they have value at that scale. 2. In E:A, the Kroot face a couple of problems. a) Scale - If you plant a bunch of Kroot on your side of the board in a woods, it's not that big a deal. Most people will either find a way to maneuver around them, or isolate them. b) Utility - The Tau list is heavily mechanized, or at least can be. There isn't a lot of value added to a mechanized force by light skirmishing forces. The Kroot don't bring anything to the mix that other forces don't do a lot better, even if they do cost more. One of the things that some people struggle with in using Tau is recognizing the benefits of layering capabilities to provide a decisive advantage. The Kroot don't provide much in the way of needed capabilities. They pretty much just stand there and hope that they don't get assaulted. As an aside, although it's only fluff, in the Taros campaign, the Kroot were pretty much relagated to "garrisoning" fixed terrain features (Phyyra Heights , Hydro Plant 23-30), where their sole purpose of existence was the denial of the feature to Imperials. So, I think one way of approaching this exercise is to determine up front, what the expected role of the Kroot should be. Once we've done that, then figuring out what their stats ought to be should be a little easier. Just to throw something out there, possible roles could be: 1. Light scouting force, featuring Warriors, Hounds, and Knarloc riders (the cavalry guys, not the Super Turkey). 2. Garrison force, featuring Warriors, Krootox, and Super Turkeys. Over to you... ? ? _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Legion 4	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:23 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Yes, not letting Kroot or Gue' use Transport ... limits their use in a mech force like the Tau ... IMO ... _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:36 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	Garrisson wise aren't the human allies a better deal? After all firepower is more useful in such a force than assault capabilities typically. _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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Tactica

Post subject: Kroot auxiliary Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:30 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Quote (Honda @ 20 Feb. 2006 (08:12)) So, I think one way of approaching this exercise is to determine up front, what the expected role of the Kroot should be. Once we've done that, then figuring out what their stats ought to be should be a little easier. Just to throw something out there, possible roles could be: 1. Light scouting force, featuring Warriors, Hounds, and Knarloc riders (the cavalry guys, not the Super Turkey). 2. Garrison force, featuring Warriors, Krootox, and Super Turkeys. Over to you... ? ? Honda, This is an interesting idea. This would get away from the 'buy a kroot formation and add additional units' which was the legacy mentality in the 40K tau codex. If I understand your proposition correctly, we would essentially assemble two different types of kroot formations: 1. Light scouting force, featuring Warriors, Hounds, and Knarloc riders (the cavalry guys, not the Super Turkey). This formations could focus on speed and combat. Thus making it fast enough to keep up with the E:A scale. It could encorporate evolutionary components of Fleet of foot and fleet of wing into the profiles of the formation. Armor would be limited as speed is the favored defense. Shooting could be limited to decent FF from the knarloc riders and warriors. Overall, the formation could be made to be an effective ground based engaging element for the tau from FF or CC based manouvres. 2. Garrison force, featuring Warriors, Krootox, and Super Turkeys.

Great Knarlocs i.e. Super Turkeys - LOL... you may have just given L4 a heart attack!

Anyway, this formation could be more of the 'hold the line' formation. Warriors could be more of a support role ot the Krotox and 'super turkey's. The entire formation could be able to fight well, but mobility could be limited to more traditional infantry by comparison to the light scouting formation. The main role of this formation could be to capitalize on the Great Knarlocs and Krootox shooting potential. This formation could sport better armor and we could even utilize the 'tough' kroot evolvolutionary traits for durability and stability rather than speed.

Anyway - I'm thinking I like the idea of 'what are they used for' and then designing around that. The current methodology to the E:A Kroot just isn't appealing. A rethink may be in order.

Cheers,