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Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids |
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Tactica
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids  Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:19 pm |
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We were testing out the Tau AX-1-0 vs nids. There's one specific nid question regarding spawning that came up...
http://www.epic40k.co.uk/epicomm....;t=5982
The question,
Given: we realized something about the bug list. They have to Marshal in order to 'spawn'. They perform a 'spawn' instead of regrouping during a Marshal.
However, if they take a Hold action - they cannot use the 'regroup' to spawn.
So regroup during Marshal vs. Hold works differently for the bugs?
How does the regroup during a hold do anything for the bugs since they don't use BM?
Is this an oversight, are we playing them wrong, or is it intentional we wondered?
Definitely a question for this forum. 
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Rob
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:30 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Regroup doesn't do anything for them, so they would fire or move. It's intentional, as several people reported that being allowed to spawn on every failed activation was too powerful.
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Neal
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Chroma
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:31 pm |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 30 Jan. 2006 (16:19)) | | Is this an oversight, are we playing them wrong, or is it intentional we wondered? |
I'm of the opinion that spawning should replace regrouping in all cases, but that the "spawn enhancer" options: broodmother, mycetic spores, etc should only be usable during Marshal actions.
I can't see a Node *not* having a few creatures with it, and with the revised spawn costs, a single d6 of broods isn't going to be overpowering on a failed roll.
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Tactica
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:23 pm |
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Just an outsider looking in, but it 'seemed' odd that any army in E:A can fail and take a hold action. With it, they get three options. One of which was regroup and avoid being broken later.
The bugs that fail to activate only get two options, move or shoot. As shooting isn't typically going to be the best option since the nid list really isn't shooting oriented, that leaves one typical opion... 'move'.
Not having a 'regroup' intentionally limits their flexability with the 'hold' action and makes rolling a 1 to activate a somewhat 'forced' action vs. giving the controling player an option.
Furthermore, where the normal list takes a hold as an opportunity to releave BM's, the nid player gains no such benefit due to being immune to BM in the first place.
Again - outsider looking in, but from my vantage point, I'm with Chroma on this one. With new spawning costs, a 'reduced' reconstitution (or spawning) seems to be in order when the nid formation Holds. Perhaps only a single d6 instead of modifiers for distance or mysetic, etc... but something should happen if the player chooses to have the formation 'regroup' - shouldn't it?
Cheers,
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Rob
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Jaldon
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:37 am |
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They only spawn when they marshal, not as part of a hold action. As Neal pointed out it was tried before and found to be too powerful.
Jaldon 
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Chroma
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:58 am |
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| Quote (Jaldon @ 30 Jan. 2006 (23:37)) | | They only spawn when they marshal, not as part of a hold action. As Neal pointed out it was tried before and found to be too powerful. |
I think it was shown to be too powerful when all the bells and whistle options to spawning were allowed, not just a mere 1d6
If the additional spawn dice (broodmother, no enemies within 30cm, and mycetic spores) are only allowed to be used during a Marshal action, so that, on a Hold a formation can only spawn 1d6 at most, how is that too powerful? Then the rules, essentially, mirror what other armies do with spawning replacing regrouping as a "bolstering" choice, and it still might be more beneficial to choose to move or shoot!
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Jaldon
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:09 am |
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I agree in the 'short term' it doesn't look like it will do all that much, hey it is onl;y 1D6, right.
But during the course of a four turn battle, a couple of failures and there are few bugs left to spawn back.
I have seen it 'add up' to a player getting two to four D6 rolls in two turns. Extend that to a full four turn battle and it has grown to four to eight rolls.
In the end the Nids end up getting 'rewarded' for failing an activation. That itself somehow feels wrong even if we ignore its effects on the Tie Breaker rule now being used.
Thanks All...
Jaldon
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Tactica
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:39 am |
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Fair enough Jaldon, thanks for explaining.
Cheers,
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Rob
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Chroma
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:33 am |
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| Quote (Jaldon @ 31 Jan. 2006 (01:09)) | | In the end the Nids end up getting 'rewarded' for failing an activation. That itself somehow feels wrong even if we ignore its effects on the Tie Breaker rule now being used. |
Well, I'd hardly consider it a reward for failing a roll! *laugh*
You're still forced to make a choice.
All other armies can make one of the three choices when they fail an Action test, and one of them is to remove blast markers. Is removing 2d6, take the highest, BMs a reward for failing the roll? No, it's a function of the Hold order, which is what you take instead of whatever other action you wanted; you're already being punished by not being able to accomplish what you wanted.
Gaining 1d6 Brood Creatures instead of engaging an enemy or firing indirect isn't much a reward, I'd much prefer the successful action! A lone Tyrant or recently arrived Lesser Node is still going to be fairly vulnerable even with a couple of new friends and a larger swarm will probably still choose to move or shoot. Spawning is, essentially, the Tyranid answer to removing blast markers, is it not? And even if the formation does roll a "6", it's doing nothing else that whole turn.
I definitely can see how is can be abusive if you allow all the other spawn-enhancers into play, I think that would be foolish. I still can't see how 1d6 can be abused.
That it interacts "oddly" with the Tie Breaker rules is more of a function of spawning in general than this small instance. Isn't it more "abusive" that, in the event of a tie-breaker, the Tyranid player could just do as much spawning as possible with remaining units to empty the spawning pool? To me that's a telling example of why Brood units shouldn't count for tie-breaker.
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Cobalt
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:22 am |
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Hi,
If they guy spent the whole battle spawning this way, its because he failed miserably on his activation rolls, and therefore was probably on the losing side, right?
If I had it my way, it would be :
Roll 2D6, take the highest and spawn that much.
Effectilvy mimicing the other armies behaviour, and not letting nids go mad with mycetic spores and others.
But that is for Household Hive Fleet Cobalt, hehehe....
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Cobalt
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Chroma
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Post subject: Tau (v4.3.3) v Nids Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:43 pm |
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| Quote (Hena @ 31 Jan. 2006 (10:47)) | | IMHO making special rules of special is a bad thing. So in that sense I'm quite ok with the fact that we cannot spawn during hold. |
It's not "special rules for special rules", it's simply saying that spawning replaces regrouping in all cases. And then placing "During a Marshal action..." in front of the list of spawn enhancing options.
Seems pretty simple to me.
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