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Tyranid v6.1
ragnarok	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:10 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England	My take on fearless, isn't so much that the unit is fearless, rather how much the hive mind cares about it. If an assault is lost then the HM will withdraw its troops to find a weaker area to attack.  In doing so it will sacrifice its gaunts as a rearguard, to protect the valuable synpase cratures (gaunts including ravenrs not fearless, synpase are) However some of the more valuable nid rittters are just too slow (bio artillery) or just stuck right in it (other uncoomon bugs) to be withdrawn (not fearless).  Carnies seem to be an exception, but they got rampage last time round, and they are shock troops. With independents, I can see Lictors getting fearless.  They lose so they cloak and the enemy can't see them.  Genestealers will be cut down if they turn their backs on anything (not fearless).  Bio titans, if one of these lumber off after hacking at your formation I think you would just be glad that it is buggering off and wont annoy it (ie shoot at it) just in case it changesit mind. (fearless) _________________ Tyranid air marshal
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nealhunt	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:38 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Myecetic Spores remain in the catagory JJ set for them. I agree with this.  I think that is a proper place for their points to come out of. I do, however, also agree that they at least need a note to the effect of "technically not a brood but the point cost counts against the uncommon brood point allocation." _________________ Neal

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Chroma

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:32 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Quote (nealhunt @ 19 Jan. 2006 (14:38)) Myecetic Spores remain in the catagory JJ set for them. I agree with this. ?I think that is a proper place for their points to come out of. Why would they come out of Uncommon Broods? If anything, they should be their own catagory with something like "Every Synapse group allows you to purchase up to 3 Mycetic Spores at 25 points each." and not be under any of the catagories. Since the Common/Uncommon status of units may switch (while Synapse will not) in other Tyranid lists, such as Splinter Fleets or Phase III, etc, I really don't feel it belongs there and bet drop pods to doughnuts that JJ just placed them there incidentally. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

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nealhunt	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:45 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	It wasn't incidental and has been discussed before. I think its a decent approximation of the background.  Mycetic spores aren't as common as broods and definitely shouldn't count toward that 25% minimum. But aren't so rare that having them come out of the SC or Independent categories makes sense.  By default, that leaves Uncommon.  It's not a perfect "feel" but it's in the ballpark. I wouldn't be opposed to a per-synapse limitation, or another that made sense.  I just don't think it's necessary.  The drawback I see is that the army list is already fiddly enough with 4 categories of creatures, each with point limitations.  Making another category when the current arrangement is effective seems like overkill. _________________ Neal
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ragnarok	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:59 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England	I actually think that mycetic spores are one of the most common "creatures" that the nid army has.  Since we arn't allowed any planetfall ability transports it must mean that everything comes downi n spores. _________________ Tyranid air marshal
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Chroma	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (ragnarok @ 19 Jan. 2006 (18:59)) I actually think that mycetic spores are one of the most common "creatures" that the nid army has. ?Since we arn't allowed any planetfall ability transports it must mean that everything comes downi n spores. Well... some is homegrown...   _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Chroma	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:26 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	A related question: are "expended" Mycetic Spores counted as "destroyed" for the purpose of calculating Victory Points? _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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ragnarok	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:44 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England	I would say no.  On the grounds that an expended orbital asset isn't concidered destroyed once used. _________________ Tyranid air marshal
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Chroma	Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:00 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (ragnarok @ 19 Jan. 2006 (20:44)) I would say no. ?On the grounds that an expended orbital asset isn't concidered destroyed once used. But the starship isn't "gone" after its flyby.  The Mycetic Spores are used up and could represent "additional effort" that the Hive Mind had to expend to influence the fight. As I said, I'm unsure!  Hive Mind help us!   _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Jaldon

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:18 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.

And, erm, Jaldon, with all due respect, Tyranid Warrios ARE fearless... Well you say so in your list 6.1... How dare you muck up my perfect prose with something as trivial as the truth (Just Kidding) Truth be known I am more, and more, believing that all of the Synapse should be fearless. Not so much because it fits the fluff, though it does, as much as that the changes that have been make them even more of a target and I would hate to see them KIA'd because of losses in an assault. Instead I would rather see opponents also have to work hard to get them. Myecetic Spores In General

This has all been agonized over, and discussed to the nth degree, long ago and this was the catagory that best suits them. As Neal said not a perfect solution, but it is better then the alterantives tried, or nothing.

They cannot be allowed to be 'bought' in their own catagory, and I am very hesitant to put any kind of limit on them without a very good reason.

They definitely don't belong in the Synapse catagory and I really don't want a cause/effect artificial limit on Synapse creaturtes being bought (which it would). Independents doesn't fit either, and I don't want a cause/effect artificial limit here either.

Putting them in the Brood Catagory fits, but then a player can purchase Hordes of them and never field a single Brood Creature (Ravener, Termagaunt, Hormagaunt, Gargoyle). Thus an entire army of Uncommon Brood Creatures with more then enough Spores to insure they never leave the table.

By default this leaves the Uncommon Brood catagory as the only one with a limit in points and units a player needs to field. This forces the Nid player to make choices between  troop selection and spawn ability, and IMHO this is the best way to limit them.

Myecetic Spores DO NOT count as a unit for Tie Breakers.

Or is that ALL Nid WE can regenerate, including the Trygon/Hierodule?


Yes, for now All War Engines, nice huh

6 normal attacks then 2 TT attacks? Is that correct?


Correct

My take on fearless, isn't so much that the unit is fearless, rather how much the hive mind cares about it

I like this point Rag, good view in general on the whole post. Dovetails nicely into the whole Hive Mind outlook. I'm gonna file this one for sure and use it as a re-write for the Hive Mind background, OK?

Thanks All (Hoping to do a battle this weekend and a batrep)

Jaldon