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Tyranid v6.1

Chroma

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:22 pm

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Oh, and purely grammatically speaking: "It's" = "It is" and "Its" is used for showing possessive. "The Hive Tyrant sharpens its claws." "It's looking like trouble when the Hive Tyrant smiles."

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ragnarok

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:53 pm

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I think it should be better weapons. Lowering the cost means we could have a swarm of them As it is we can have three hierophants in a torniment list

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:06 pm

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Titans should be special. So no more than 1 or 2 of the bigger titans (reaver/gargant or warlord/great gargant sized). But not by restriction, but by pointscost because theye are (and should) be powerful.

Bio-Titans are always described that they can shred enemy titans at easy and terrain is nver any hindrance for them (the thought of a warlord-sized bio-titan clinging at the side of a large hill reminds me of a gigantic spider....terrifiyng and very cool i think

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nealhunt

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:10 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Just to reiterate and give more encouragement, I love the design philosophy and the direction of your changes.

====

As always a few nitpicks:

1) Harridan - I agree with much of what has been said. Compared to a Vituperator which has a similar role, it's half the DC, about half the firepower and about half the assault value. I'd say it needs to be half the price and would suggest testing it at 175 or 200. For comparison, a 2-Harridan SC Group would be about the same price as a Vituperator, with slightly better firepower, more flexibility for Swarm deployment, but be significantly less durable.

2) Trygon - I love the idea of bringing back the "old school" bio-electrical blast template, but I seriously doubt it will fly. Rather than spending time working on it, I would suggest making stats that more closely resemble the FW version as that seems much more likely to be allowed.

3) Exocrine - based on both points values and some tactics I can think of, I would say that Brood (3) would be a better place to start.

===

Minor quibbles, to be sure. Overall, I am back to being much more excited about testing Nids than Tau at this point.

No offense to CS. :;):

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:48 pm

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For the "Trygon" perhabs this stats, as it reflects the FW rules better?

Hierodule ?B? (Trygon)
Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF
WE / 15cm / 4+ / 4+ / 3+
Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes
Bio Shock/ (15cm) / small arms, Disrupt
Big Claws / Base Contact / MW / +1 attacks
notes: DC-3, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood (6), Teleport
Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart;
1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks
6: The Hierodule is killed

The teleport ability reflects, that the Trygon is most of the time under the earth, following its synapse creature. So no brood-points are needed in the first place to "summon" it to the surface.
Trygons in the death-heap can be re-spawned with 6 brood-points as usual.

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Cobalt

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:52 pm

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Hi all,

Jaldon, first, thanks for your work. You got us all wanting to make some more testing... Guess it is a good omen.
A few questions and comments, if I may :

First, a general comment, I like most if not all the changes you propose.
Probably the only ones that let me doubtfull are the genestealers (they never did anything in my games, even with better stats...Now they are slower) and the carnifex, but I will try nevertheless.
On the plus side, I was already playing with 6.1 lictors...:cool:
Other things:

0 - Special Rule : Break their spirit.
I understand the objective, and like it. But if I have one Dominatrix and one lesser node, killing the node will break MY spirit. Why go for number of synapse creatures, and not their value?

1 - Fearless : is there a reason to remove it from Harridan, Vituperator and Hierophant?

2 - Rather than Superspore, I would suggest something like Macrospores, much more biological

3 - Dominatrix : She ain't walker? Is that normal?

4 - Critical on Dominatrix : that kills the Supreme Commander. But Why would she keep Synapse creature? After all, she just becomes one angry hydraphant, right? Shouldn't we make it become independent?

5 - Zoanthrope : Now a light vehicle, but not a walker? But Biovore is walking?

6 - Bioshock template ? What's that? Breath? Orbital barrage centerd on the beast?

7 - Shouldn't we include Regeneration on all the beast that do that nice trick?

8 - Criticals on WE with less than 3 DC. Why bother? Kill them directly, as with other WE in other armies. Funny criticals should be only for the real big bugs. And if you feel nasty, rather than just killing the WE, make it crush all units in btb (5+ for example). the only exception I would do is for Expectorator, giving it a slow firing ona 1-5 as you do.

9 - And last, but probably the longest shot, and will probably need a post on itself : hierophant and hydraphant.. See therefore other thread.

I have translated you list in french, and with your permission, shall send it to the french yahoogroup. And I'm testing it next week.
Once again, thanks, and keep it up. You have raised huge expectation.

Cobalt

:cool:

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Jaldon

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:32 am

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First some quick shots........

Haridan, me bad typo, two Bio-Cannons me fixed it thanks.

Myecetic Spores remain in the catagory JJ set for them.

The Bio-Titans will not be lowered in price, nor will they be recieving more 'Claws', instead I want to build them up to TK2 TK3 TK6 to see which is going to fit best. I encourage players to try them at different values to see what you come up with. The same goes for their ranged weaponry, try them with an extra weapon and see how it goes. I low ended the WEs on the list intentionally, I believe, and we will probably have to build them up.

Giving them more claws increases their number of attacks making the MWTK too effective against all troop types, so D# values will and should be tested.

The suggested Hierodule 'B' goes into the file for later reference and playtesting.

0 - Special Rule : Break their spirit.
I understand the objective, and like it. But if I have one Dominatrix and one lesser node, killing the node will break MY spirit. Why go for number of synapse creatures, and not their value?

Because it encourages a player to get more Synapse Creatures to prevent the army from being vulnerable to Break Their Spirit, remember this is a Horde Army, and that means large numbers of troops.

3 - Dominatrix : She ain't walker? Is that normal?

Oppppppps fixed it typo, hey I am not perfect.

1 - Fearless : is there a reason to remove it from Harridan, Vituperator and Hierophant?

It doesn't fit them, their extra capability is covered in the other Nid special abilities.

4 - Critical on Dominatrix : that kills the Supreme Commander. But Why would she keep Synapse creature? After all, she just becomes one angry hydraphant, right? Shouldn't we make it become independent?

No it stays, this has been playtested and accepted as is. Losing the re-roll is more then enough punishment, without having to lose Synapse too.

5 - Zoanthrope : Now a light vehicle, but not a walker? But Biovore is walking?

Oooooooops again :oops:

?Fixed it.

6 - Bioshock template ? What's that? Breath? Orbital barrage centerd on the beast?

Breath Template

7 - Shouldn't we include Regeneration on all the beast that do that nice trick?

No we shouldn't :angry:

8 - Criticals on WE with less than 3 DC. Why bother? Kill them directly, as with other WE in other armies. Funny criticals should be only for the real big bugs. And if you feel nasty, rather than just killing the WE, make it crush all units in btb (5+ for example).

For now it stays as Regeneration can make it worth keeping in.

I have translated you list in french, and with your permission, shall send it to the french yahoogroup.

Don't see why not, more the merrier :(8:

You have raised huge expectation.

Uh oh gonna need a lot of faith if you actually trust me, I mean look at all the typos so far, cheeeeez :oops:

Thanks All

Jaldon

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ragnarok

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:06 am

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Jaldon
The Bio-Titans will not be lowered in price, nor will they be recieving more 'Claws', instead I want to build them up to TK2 TK3 TK6 to see which is going to fit best.

I think TK(6) should be fine. ?

But to be less silly (if only for a moment). ?I think this is the right way to go. ?It specialise the bio titans, and specalisation is what nids are all about.

Jaldon
Quote ?
1 - Fearless : is there a reason to remove it from Harridan, Vituperator and Hierophant?

It doesn't fit them, their extra capability is covered in the other Nid special abilities.

I'm going to have to politly disagree with you their Jaldon...Big boss...er sir. :(8:

I think that all synapse creatures should be fearless. ?The are focal points of the hive mind, which spures them on even after their bodies have mortally wounded. ?I see them not self aware as some would say, or indeed as section T1.71 would imply. ?Rather they are totally controlled by the hive mind kind of like daemon pocession. ?Thus the body will fight on regardless, and not be cut down by some opputunist fire.

As for the Hierophant it is a titan class war machine and should get all the benefits that they do including fearless and a free dental plan. ?

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:58 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
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Location: New Zealand

Quote (ragnarok @ 18 Jan. 2006 (23:06))

I think that all synapse creatures should be fearless. ?The are focal points of the hive mind, which spures them on even after their bodies have mortally wounded. ?

As for the Hierophant it is a titan class war machine and should get all the benefits that they do including fearless and a free dental plan. ?

In principle I agree with ragnarok that these critters should be fearless.

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Jaldon

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:50 am

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I'm going to have to politly disagree with you their Jaldon...Big boss...er sir.

And

In principle I agree with ragnarok that these critters should be fearless.

Heretics I tell you Heretics, I am surrounded by them :8:

How dare they disagree with me!

Cardinal RichenBleu give these two men the comfy chair forthwith until they confess :80:

to their heresy!

Ok enough sillyness, one should never watch too much Monty Python before posting.................Sorry :down:

I would be inclined to agree on the Vituperator, but not the Harridan or the Hierophant.

Tyranid Warriors are Synapse Creatures and they are not fearless, and never have been. I also don't see them as being fearless creatures like the Hive Tyrant. The same logic applies to the Harridan, I can agree that it could be an error to remove Fearless from the Vituperator, but not the Harridan.

Oddly enough the v1.0 Hierophant was not fearless (called immune to panic back then) and I agreed with it then, liked it, and obviously agree still that it should remain so.

There could easily be made a case for saying the entire Nid Army should be fearless, so what we need is a definition that divides the 'Fearless Nids' from the 'We Are Almost Fearless Nids'.

Here goes...............................

A fearless Nid is a creature whose instictive behavior would go counter to an instinctive desire for self-preservation. OR. A Nid creature that is a primary focus for the Hive Mind and is bred by the Hive Mind to have no instinctive desire for self-preservation.

So Big Synapse Creatures = Fearless
Smaller Synapse Creatures = Non-Fearless

Suicide Creatures = Fearless
Main Force Creatures = Non-Fearless

No this is not going to be a rule just a sorta guidline to rationalize around.

Thanks All

Jaldon

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Jaldon

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:14 am

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Well. I'm thinking d3. As it would give 2-6 total vs the old 4. But old had more change of hitting with 4 hits than the current 2. Perhaps Hydraphant and Dominatrix could have CC3+ to allow them to hit with those weapons?

My intentions are to find the ground that fits best. Under the old 'claw' attacks the Bio-Titans were 'on their own' killing machines that slaughtered anything that got near them. The problem was they were far too good at it.

Reducing the number of 'claws', with the intention of increasing the damage they can inflict on WEs, produces a Bio-Titan that is ok against little troops and can be very deadly against Titans. This removes them from the stand alone killing machine they were, puts them more in the support role against little troops, while still being a credible threat to WEs. Fits better into the Tyranid units being less capable in general then other army's similar equipment.

Rather then make all of you wait another week, or two, for me and my friends here to flesh out the entire list's details I thought it better to get up what I had so you all could start playtesting in the direction set for the list.

This does meen that there are gaps that need filling, and details to hack out still, but I felt it would go much easier this way. The point is right now I do want all of you to experiment with this list, try the Bio-Titans at CC3+ and MWTK D3, it's ok, as long as you tell all of us what happened :8):

Just one word of advice though, try to only change one or two things and keep the rest as printed as it gives one a better baseline to draw a conclusion from.

Thanks All

Jaldon

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Cobalt

Post subject: Tyranid v6.1

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:25 am

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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:43 pm
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Aye aye sir!

Will try TTD3 titans (and that be the only mod applied)

Soooo.... just to be on the safe side, just exactly how many dice will a hierophant (DC 6, MW TT +2 attacks) roll in a CC engagement?
6 normal attacks then 2 TT attacks? Is that correct?

Thanks for answering the various points adressed. Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding :

By saying putting regeneration on all the bugs able to do it, I mean just writing Regeneration on the special abilities of the bugs that you think can do it, to ensure nobody starts regenerating harridans and greater nodes...

Or is that ALL Nid WE can regenerate, including the Trygon/Hierodule?

And, erm, Jaldon, with all due respect, Tyranid Warrios ARE fearless... Well you say so in your list 6.1...

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