Hammerhead Discussion |
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Breten
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion  Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:44 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:15 pm
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Just curious about a couple things.
Do you guys take Cadres or Contingents? Does it depend on the size of the game?In my game, I could see where having 2 small forces of 4 on each side would have been better than having 1 6 HH squad running up the middle. I guess in a larger gamee you might actually take 2 HH Cadres.
The Swordfish upgrade. Do you guys find this upgrade to be worth it? Do the better AP/AT values make that much of a difference?
And lastly I'm curious as to why the alternate turreted Hammerheads have been retired from the main list? Were they deemed to powerful, or was it a streamlining issue?
Brett
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Lion in the Stars
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:52 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
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Yea, verily, the alternate turrets doth sucketh. (sorry, too many christmas carols in shakespearean english)
They just aren't effective, if we translate them from 40k.
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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"
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HecklerMD
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:00 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:42 am
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| Quote (Breten @ 20 Dec. 2005 (08:44)) | | Do you guys take Cadres or Contingents? Does it depend on the size of the game?In my game, I could see where having 2 small forces of 4 on each side would have been better than having 1 6 HH squad running up the middle. I guess in a larger gamee you might actually take 2 HH Cadres. |
I'm taking 1 Cadre + HHs upgrade, and I add HHs as a upgrade to my 2 FW cadres. In my 4K Army I've got 12 HHs on the table
| Quote (Breten @ 20 Dec. 2005 (08:44)) | | The Swordfish upgrade. Do you guys find this upgrade to be worth it? Do the better AP/AT values make that much of a difference? |
To me, the overall improvement to the SFs firepower, both primary and secondary weapon systems, make it worth the 25 points.
I think the big question to most people, myself included, is "Is it worth chopping up the resin?"
| Quote (Breten @ 20 Dec. 2005 (08:44)) | | And lastly I'm curious as to why the alternate turreted Hammerheads have been retired from the main list? Were they deemed to powerful, or was it a streamlining issue? |
I think it was a third option: Price. JG didnt want to fiddile with fine-tuning the price for them while slowing down the rest of the list. Makes sense to me.
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Tactica
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:16 am |
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
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See my most recent "I got a 4K game in" thread. I fielded 1 AMHC and 1 HH Contingent.
Both are effective and have different uses.
The HH contingent can have some different uses.
I also apply IC-heads to FW foramtions frequently.
I'm going to try a crisis +HH + FW w/DF + (drones/stealth/orPFsw/DF)
In near future. I'm bound and determined to get that crisis formation fighting in a manner I like.
I like using the HH in all three modes AMHC, Contingent, and as upgrades to their own and other formations. Again, see recent "I got a 4K game" thread for more on how that worked in that game for me.
Cheers,
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Rob
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Breten
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:48 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:15 pm
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I definately need more Hammerheads. I only have 9. I ordered 9 more. 2 packs of Railheads and 1 Ionhead. Should be here sometime in January as I ordered them from the new LGS. I also ordered two of the Tau Recon packs for som Tetra goodness.
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Breten
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:16 pm |
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Has anyone tried adding a pair of Ion-Heads to a squad of Crisis suits? It's the same cost as adding 2 Crisis suits, so I'm curious of anyone has tried this and what results they've gotten. I suppose now that Crisis suits are Infantry this could potentially run into some problems.
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:00 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Has anyone tried adding a pair of Ion-Heads to a squad of Crisis suits? It's the same cost as adding 2 Crisis suits, so I'm curious of anyone has tried this and what results they've gotten. I suppose now that Crisis suits are Infantry this could potentially run into some problems. |
I haven't tried this but there appear to be some downsides. As you mentioned with crisis as infantry the AV Hammerheads can be picked off by AT fire. And the range of the IC wouldnt be fully utilised when bringing the crisis' guns to bear. The formation would potentially lose some of its ability to use cover as well.
So with those disadvantages, the question is what benefit do you expect to gain from IC Hammerheads in the crisis cadre?
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Breten
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:06 pm |
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My first thought was some survivability. I was thinking the Ion Heads would give them some support as they advanced, both AA and regular support, letting the crisis suits advance closer to better use their capabilities.
However I have since decided just to run a contingent of Ions deployed between the two cadres. I do believe that Crisis suits can garrison as they are Infantry, if I'm remembering correctly, so it'll be better as the separate contingent from my view.
I still plan on trying it out at somepoint though.
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HecklerMD
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:28 pm |
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| Quote (Breten @ 22 Dec. 2005 (12:06)) | | I do believe that Crisis suits can garrison as they are Infantry, if I'm remembering correctly, so it'll be better as the separate contingent from my view. |
I think they are too fast to garrison, and they dont have scout. 
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:33 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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In certain terrain, I could see the Crisis+HHcombo working. For example, if there is scattered terrain that the Crisis can use, the formation could move into terrain and fire, with the HH's remaining behind and popping up.
Overall, though, it would be tough to manage.
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Neal
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Tactica
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:51 pm |
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If you are looking for ablative staying power for the crisis while adding some more AT/AP punch... What about Stingray or Piranha upgrades to other base formations composites...
Crisis and Ion-head with Mech FW base...
1) 4 crisis + 2 Ion-head + 4 FW w/2 DevF + 2 Stingray
2) 4 crisis + 2 Ion-head + 4 FW w/2 DevF + 4 Piranha
Crisis and Ion-head with Drone Base...
3) 4 crisis + 2 Ion-head + 4 Drone + 2 Stingray
4) 4 crisis + 2 Ion-head + 4 Drone + 4 Piranha
Crisis and Ion-head with Stealth Base...
5) 4 crisis + 2 Ion-head + 3 Stealth w/RA + 2 Stingray
6) 4 crisis + 2 Ion-head + 3 Stealth w/RA + 4 Piranha
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Rob
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:40 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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So... does this mean you've come around to the idea that Piranhas are pretty good units? 
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Neal
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Tactica
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:30 pm |
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LOL - well, as an upgrade - there's definitely a situational value.
"Pretty Good Units" would be a stretch for me.
If you have the target marked, and you can sustain, and the opponent is in the open and not in cover, nobody is going to look down on X amount of 4+ shots... but that's not opportunity available in every turn or even every game for me.
Do they have a purpose in some lists - yes. Ablative comes to mind. All good generals should be able to work with what they have.
Seriously, I see in this case that there may be a fit. However, let me be clear. The Crisis are not my favorite Tau E:A unit by any means. If you look at my typical list, I usually don't take them. I generally do not get a ROI out of this formation.
However, Bretan really likes the crisis formation and typically seems to work two of these formations into his lists. I respect that. If you can get the formation in close - three shots per stand can add up on a mixed unit type enemy formation.
I suggested the Piranha and Stingray as
1) Bretan stated that he wanted to try Ion's with his crisis
2) Bretan said he was wanting to add some more 'bang' to the formaiton
3) somebody said the Ion's would become fragile in an infantry formation
The switch between FW+DevF or drones add in inf/veh ablative units for the core crisis and ion-head formaion's base. So here's his extra units for the meat of his formation.
I would then incorporate piranha or stingray as further 'bang' and ablative needs for the increasing formation.
Its worth noting that I tried taking the piranhas to bolster a stingray formation recently. (See I got a 4K game in) thread. My opinion of the formation overall was a bit lack luster until it could get close and maximize from sustain fire against no armor infantry in cover.
Personally - I'm not a big fan of the crisis formation - so although I'm trying to offer help to Bretan, none of these formations typically make it into my lists.
Final thought - I vow to find a way to use crisis in my own lists to an acceptable level. I've not achieved that zen like state as of yet... but I'm working on it. The reason - its a challenge. Moreover, I absolutely love the crisis in 40K, but they just don't cut it in E:A for me (personally).
Cheers,
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Rob
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:50 am |
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
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Final thought - I vow to find a way to use crisis in my own lists to an acceptable level. I've not achieved that zen like state as of yet... but I'm working on it. The reason - its a challenge. Moreover, I absolutely love the crisis in 40K, but they just don't cut it in E:A for me (personally). |
Out of curiosty, how do you normally field your SC? (Last time it was as an upgrade to a FW Cadre IIRC)
Since the Shas'o is either in a XV8 or Dragonfish, neither of which is your favourite unit?
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Tactica
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Post subject: Hammerhead Discussion Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:50 am |
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In a fun list or competative list, my SC comes by way of upgrade to a FW cadre.
FW + crisis + Shas'o
cheapest way for us to get a shas'o if you don't want to take a DrFish.
If I have points, i give them
1) DevF
2) 2 HH
in that order.
Cheers,
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Rob
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